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Thread: SA Wehrschießen (Frühling 1944/Spring 1944)

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    Member Deejay's Avatar
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    Default SA Wehrschießen (Frühling 1944/Spring 1944)



    A document that might be of interest to some of you, as it shows the gear used by the SA for rifle training purposes in the spring of 1944 - being fluent in German, I can provide an English translation of the commentary if need be.

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    Senior Member mauser99's Avatar
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    in 1944 should be saying "oh shit we might actually have to use these so we better learn fast ! "
    Great footage Ive never seen... Looks like mostly dsm34/36's being used.

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    Member Deejay's Avatar
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    Here are a few stills :

















    I had thought that DSM 34s would have been superseded by KKWs by the end of the war, as only a single unconfirmed Mauser DSM 34 has been reported for 1943 in Jon Speed's book...
    Last edited by Deejay; 06-18-2017 at 02:14 PM.

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    Senior Member KKW22cal's Avatar
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    Mauser made around 50,000 DSM rifles alone. I couldn't see the high command letting those rifles sit idle especially how the war was going for Germany.

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    Moderator mauser22's Avatar
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    Default Great Video

    Thanks for that!! Great stuff, will be doing a stop and study on much of that.

    I am skeptical that all that footage was shot in spring of 1944 however. It appears from further studies and observations that a few DSM's trickled out (in Mauser's case) through wars end with even a few made during French Occupation from left over parts. Nearly all by others were made the first 2 years (34-35). Outside Mauser Weihrauch (we found invoices by them for small quantitys into 1938) finished a few late as did Anschutz evidenced by the presence of Eagle N proofs on a very few. "Superseded" by design but not by use. As with combat weapons there were never enough trainers. The only reason any "set idle" was lack of ammunition which became increasingly scarce by this point in time.

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    Member Deejay's Avatar
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    If I am not mistaken, KKWs are seen twice on this footage. I was wondering whether the ratio DSM 34/KKW was the same in the SA and the HJ, as photos picturing Hitlerjungen using KKWs are fairly common whereas SA shooting pictures often show DSM 34s being used.

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    Moderator mauser22's Avatar
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    Default SA's Gun

    I think it is fairly safe to assume the SA got the line share of KKW production. It was that organization that lobbied for the gun, controlled small bore marksmanship within the Reich until 1937-38 when the Wehrmacht and SS became responsible for the paramilitary training of the HJ. The SA controlled the largest producer (BSW-Gustloff).

    There is more than one document we have seen though that earlier on, the HJ had priority for DSM production including the Mauser Contract with Simson Werke and a "rebate" program on the DSM.

    That is another reason for the W625 series which was not effected by the disposition provision of that contract and did not fall under the same rebate program as the DSM and again the SA controlled that production base. sales and distribution (totally).

    DSM and KKW "standard" trainer if you will and much more political

    W625 series never adopted as "standard" (as true of many of the "other" trainers) and not so much directed as to end users.
    Last edited by mauser22; 06-19-2017 at 03:59 PM. Reason: brain farts and clarity - hopefully

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    Senior Member luftmacher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deejay View Post
    If I am not mistaken, KKWs are seen twice on this footage. I was wondering whether the ratio DSM 34/KKW was the same in the SA and the HJ, as photos picturing Hitlerjungen using KKWs are fairly common whereas SA shooting pictures often show DSM 34s being used.
    First off, the SA was "the customer" for both the DSM and KKW. Commercial sales were allowed and enthusiastically encouraged, but not many people could afford to purchase one in these years. The SS required members to qualify with the trainers because of .22 economy and range availability, and purchased most of theirs directly from Mauser on contract. There were about 150,000 DSMs out when this film was made, and KKW production never approached half of that. Demand exceeded production, as mentioned, and many other .22 rifles were often used in what became a nation-wide MANDATORY program to train all citizens of draft age to be marksmen. The SA was in charge of that program from early 1933, and was the authority over it to the end of the war.
    Steve

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