1915 Simson & Co SUHL GEW 98

I posted pictures of this new (to me) rifle on another forum. One of the members on there said I should post it here as well. SimsonSuhl has already been very helpful to educate me on this rifle, as have others. I have collected military firearms and militaria for years but this is my first WW1 Mauser. I am aware this is an uncommon maker and year, but I do not know a whole lot about it beyond what has been shared with me by others or found online, so feel free to educate me and others in the nuances of this example. The stock appears to me to be made from a beautiful piece of fiddle back walnut (English walnut) and it has a beautiful tiger stripe look to it. There are small dings and dents in the wood and one gouge in the upper hand guard like it was dropped or pulled over a narrow sharp object. All of the numbers match but it is missing the cleaning rod. I will be attaching photos outer surfaces first. Later I will post pictures of the finish under the wood. The finish under the stock is really incredible and shows it has not been refinished. The firing pin tip was cut off and then repaired prior to my owning it. The bore and chamber do not appear to have ever been plugged, like some war bond rifles were. It does have the original firing pin with matching number.

This rifle has quite a bit of blueing that remains and the action and bolt are brighter than the photos show. There is a lot of dried oil and waxy grease on the gun that appears to look like rust but it is not. It had a WW1 US 1907 pattern sling(1918 dated) attached to it when I received it. I think it had been on the rifle for many years as it was very deteriorated. Someone had even made a wire sling swivel so the sling could utilize the original rear German sling mount. The sling is unfortunately cracked completely in half in two pieces.

My internet is slow so this has been a challenge to post photos on this forum. It seems the website is logging me out before they finish downloading. I will try to post just a few at a time to start with. The pictures took three or more hours to load in batches of 2 - 3, any help or suggestions are welcomed. I posted a whole bunch on the gunboards and they only took an hour, so it may not all be on my end, maybe.

Wow your first WW1 Gew98 rifle happen too be one of the rarest pieces too own! Very hard maker too find in this year. Please post more pictures. Many German Imperial collectors here would love too see this beauty.

Again thanks for sharing and what a find!

I also believe there are only maybe five of these rifles recorded here. But I believe only one of them was all matching.

Like I said on gunboards, it's an exceptional rifle. I would look long and hard for a nice sling and lid for it!

Fantastic piece! It's a unicorn for sure. Matching and unmessed with in quite find condition. What an amazing discovery! Congrats to you and thanks for sharing.

That's a nice Gew, thanks for the pics!

A link and my post to the OP on Gunboards ( http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?823586 ), plus a couple extra pictures:

As you have been told, this is probably one of the scarcest and most desirable maker-dates, especially in this condition. Any 1915 is tough to find this nice and original, but a Simson is doubly so.

Rather than go on into a detailed and lengthy post, I will stick to your direct questions.

Specifically, the markings that determine this rifle was made for Saxony is the Royal cypher on the right side of the stock, the top marking, Crown over FA (The King of Saxony, King Friedrich August III), under this is two acceptance stamps commonly found on Simson and Dresden production. They represent the inspector that inspected the assembly and testing of the rifle (not personally, but men under his authority performing the measurements and tests). It is also known Simson had a long relationship with the Saxon's, which is why Simson was given the contract, a contract DWM was not overly enthusiastically supporting. Your rifle, with such a high serial was probably not actually made-delivered until early 1916.

Dr. Storz does a good job detailing the Simson's start up making the Gewehr98, it was a troubled start, the contract being the least of the difficulties. Simson was not able to get the gauges for rifle manufacture until September 1915, and even then difficulties were numerous, DWM did not approve of Simson's participation and had to be forced to consent (DWM owned the patents). According to Storz the first 30 rifles Simson made were delivered during September 1915. Piddly amounts continue well into 1916, your serial number, assuming rifles were delivered as the serial progresses (which we know did not happen, rifles, especially during start ups, would encounter many obstacles to acceptance and often could be held up for months before final rejection or acceptance) would not have been delivered before February-March 1916. According to delivery totals your serial could not have been delivered in 1915, rather it probably was delivered within the first quarter of 1916. Naturally, this doesn't matter in the least, according to trends sheets, everything (so far) suggests Simson continued serialing rifles, without rolling over, from 1915 into 1916, so your rifle is just as rare made/delivered in 1916 as one of the first 1600 delivered in 1915 (Simson only actually delivered 1600 rifle during all of 1915, pretty doubtful the 3567 rifle they made was in this total - being as its serial places it beyond twice the known delivered..)

As for when and where this rifle came into this country, it is very possible this rifle was one of the 70,000 rifles crated, palletized and shipped to the US by the US Army after the war. The US Army, a bit frugal, amateurish and dated about such things, thought it a good idea to bring back hoards of German military material. Everything imaginable, some of it justified, for testing and study (the US Army studied steel make up of weapons pre-war, early war and late war, the Germans were found to have lowered standards but all were equally safe and reliable, at least with artillery, - I have only seen a study on artillery regarding steel quality, unscientific intelligence reports made many similar claims about other items), but foolishly they brought back material seemingly with the expectation of potential future use. Naturally this languished in depots and took up space and funds for real problems... If you read mid-1920's periodicals and professional journals, you will see the US Army complaining about this junk clogging up their warehouses and consuming scarce funding (scarcer still because back then Republicans were actually fiscally responsible and were largely isolationists, they didn't fund the military for adventures overseas and meddling in others business, they actually concentrated on paying down the debt the democrats-Wilson ran up during the war).

Anyway, here is a picture of one of those problems, a pallet of rifles taller than a man!

Thanks for posting your amazing rifle here, I can't offer an explanation for your connectivity problems with this forum, but it probably has to do with your new status. The site owners have had to implement restrictions on new members due to hordes of scammers attacking the site. These restrictions generally ease with 3-5 posts...

Perhaps you can post some pictures of the underside of the action, the barreled receiver under the stock, specifically the barrel code, which should be under the barrel next to an eagle fireproof. I have collected three so far for Simson/15, two were Bismarckhütte and another another steel maker that is unknown. Getting yours would be helpful when compared against the others.

If you have further questions about your rifle or markings let us know, I only came upon your rifle when someone here pointed me to it, - this is not to say some of your questions couldn't be answered by others on that forum, TP and JPS run a good forum, but collectors here specialize in this variation.

Loewe said:

Thanks for posting your amazing rifle here, I can't offer an explanation for your connectivity problems with this forum, but it probably has to do with your new status. The site owners have had to implement restrictions on new members due to hordes of scammers attacking the site. These restrictions generally ease with 3-5 posts...

Perhaps you can post some pictures of the underside of the action, the barreled receiver under the stock, specifically the barrel code, which should be under the barrel next to an eagle fireproof. I have collected three so far for Simson/15, two were Bismarckhütte and another another steel maker that is unknown. Getting yours would be helpful when compared against the others.

If you have further questions about your rifle or markings let us know, I only came upon your rifle when someone here pointed me to it, - this is not to say some of your questions couldn't be answered by others on that forum, TP and JPS run a good forum, but collectors here specialize in this variation.

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I will try to take and post those pictures later tonight. Thank you all again for the interest and the helping me learn about this rifle! I am now going to be searching for a sling and cleaning rod to make it look complete. If anyone has an original sling or cleaning rod to sell, please pm me. I would also be interested in a source for a good reproduction Gew sling, preferably not the ones made in India or China. I purchased, what I assume was, a made in India MG42 sling and it is horrible copy.

Thanks,

Joe

Thanks for the added info Loewe. Interesting and informative as always. I can only imagine the conundrum all this Axis war material caused at the Newark Bay warehousing facilities. Great stuff!

All this in spite of your obviously biased opinion regarding Democraps.

Loewe,

Here are a few of those pics. Sorry for the low light, it makes everything look too dark. Maybe I'll take more on the future with a little more light. I would like to know anything you can tell me about the barrel and receiver markings.

Thanks,

Joe

P.s. these are cell phone pics, so the resolution may not come out as well as the last photos.

M37 said:

I will try to take and post those pictures later tonight. Thank you all again for the interest and the helping me learn about this rifle! I am now going to be searching for a sling and cleaning rod to make it look complete. If anyone has an original sling or cleaning rod to sell, please pm me. I would also be interested in a source for a good reproduction Gew sling, preferably not the ones made in India or China. I purchased, what I assume was, a made in India MG42 sling and it is horrible copy.

Thanks,

Joe

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You're in luck, a member here, oldcorps, has the rod you need: http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?28126-Mauser-Parts-For-Sale

Regarding original slings (and muzzle covers if you so desire), I can help you fix up this fine gewehr. I can't help you on a repro sling, don't have much use for them, lol.

pm me

This is a super rifle! And a great thread.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Thanks for the timely pictures, the quality is better than most I have collected!

The barrel is a Böhler blank, meaning the steel came from an Austrian firm, which was very common both before and during the war. Böhler did a lot of business with German firms, especially small arms makers like DWM. You see a lot of Austrian steel in DWM P.08's and probabaly this was the case with their MG08's. During WWI (1916-1917) DWM was a large user of Böhler blanks, so far they have the highest number of recordings of any maker during these years (and most everyone used them, they had a fine reputation for first class steel and advertised in period periodicals stating this fact, - specialization in barrel steel). So far we have the barrel codes of 5 Simson/15's, two are Böhler and two are Bismarckhütte (since 1919 occupied by Poland, though the Germans held it 1939-1944).

Your rifle has all the characteristics we would expect for a rifle in this range, it carries the second pattern right receiver pattern (very early they used a stylized Crown/E, quickly changing to this pattern and holding it until early 1916), they would change inspectors in early 1916 through most of 1917, though C/B you see here in places would be important to Suhl makers throughout the war. He must have been important because his inspection stamp is found on Simson and CGH throughout the war. Though it could be he inspected all receivers for Suhl or very possibly all the receivers were made by CGH regardless of maker. I kind of lean for the latter, but the fact that almost all receivers carry his inspector stamp means he was some how involved in all receiver inspection in Suhl (Simson, CGH, VCS, JPS receivers, during most of the war, were inspected by C/B, this is unusual only in the fact that Simson was not part of the consortium, and was quite the outsider, probably in part because the Simon's were Jews... this is not a reflection regarding national socialism at all, antisemitism today is mischaracterized as a "German" problem, it was nothing of the sort, if anything the "Germans" had a rather better attitude toward Jews compared to much of Europe, the french long held a reputation for antisemitism that would make a 19th century German blush and throughout eastern Europe, Poland through Rumania they long held a bad reputation and eagerly joined Hitler's early attempts to strip Jews of their citizenship protections, and well Russia, they made a sport of murdering Jews... the US and England also had a long history of a "passive aggressive" antisemitism. Only Hitler's application of an "industrial" process (the sheer scope and scale) to the systematic mass murder is noteworthy, the savagery and brutality was nothing new for Jews of Europe.)

Anyway, if you have any other questions let us know.

M37 said:

Loewe,

I would like to know anything you can tell me about the barrel and receiver markings.

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What a fantastic rifle I didn't get too see this piece posted last year. Congrats too you sir!