Third Party Press

1907 danzig

justinpba

Well-known member
I won it he said it is all matching but you know how that goes. He said the bolt is frozen up should I shoot wd -40 on it and what should I do with all the rust on it. I hope it has unit marks on it I will take picture when I get it. I read were loewe said there was only 10,000 made so I jumped on it pix118505210.jpgpix630175054.jpgpix930142186.jpgpix621917341.jpgpix788980918.jpg
 
"Read where said" is precious little to base a purchase on, further the context of what was said and the rifle in question can have miles between them... this rifle has been at auction for quite some time, as I recall the price was excessive and the pictures weren't encouraging, neither in number or quality, they did not show the rifle adequately nor how bad the corrosion is, but clearly between the description and the poor pictures it is a serious issue.

As for my comments, this rifle clearly contradict the observation that only 10,000 were made, this is a 4000/a block, which means more than 14,000 were serialed (final accepted probably less), but since then, apparently, more have been discovered, the current estimate for Danzig/07 is 6433/a which means roughly 16,000 rifles were made during this year. This is further complicated by the observation of a confirmed c-block Danzig/07 though no rifles between 6433/a and this c-block, so the c-block is not sustained as the current high because the general rule (for two decades or more, a rule Mark Weiringa outlined three decades ago) is that current highs should be supported by rifles near by, that huge gaps should be viewed with suspicion until rifles appear to support them, - a rifle that would more than double a confirmed high that is not supported should be held until it is supported by other rifles or new facts. Further we know with certainty that earlier receivers have been known to show up in subsequent years production, usually with a "/date" but not always. This newly recorded c-block does have the right acceptance pattern for a Danzig/07 so it is possible it takes Danzig to more than 30,000 in 1907. We must always be aware that survival rates among pre-war makers are far lower than wartime, it is not uncommon to discover new highs among all the pre-war makers because the vast majority were destroyed during and after the war.

Anyway, regardless of these observations, any Danzig 1907-1908 is very elusive and 1909-1913 extremely rare, in real terms they probably weren't produced these years, being as Danzig was making the Kar.98a in small numbers. There are a couple G98 receivers dated these years, but they all suggest they were made later, our UK friend here owning 1912/15 Danzig 2848 b, which can be found on this forum. There is a similar 1909 recorded by Jeff Noll, though a report only and it could be a Kar.98a misreported. There are no solid recordings 1909-1913 for Danzig, though the existence of the 1912 receiver suggests the possibility more exist. Generally, the arsenals stopped or seriously restricted G98 production just before and during Kar.98a production, in Danzig's case 1907-1908 were very low G98 production years, 1909-1913 they seemed to have stopped G98 production, and in 1914 they took G98 production back up (strongly).

As for the bolt, it is probably closed due to dried grease, a penetrating oil probably would help over time, though a bolt can be frozen due to rust and pitting too. I use to own a Danzig/09 kar.98a, just a beautiful carbine, but the chamber was pitted from rust and abuse, when fired it locked up the bolt and it took some effort to loosen it, though it improved over time. I am not a gunsmith so can't offer much advise here.. there are several other possibilities to the reason why, first thing to do, it seems to me, is to disassemble the rifle and see the action out of the stock. As for the exposed metal, that is a problematic issue, I doubt two collectors agree on what is best, - beyond starting slow and working into the least intrusive method. There are several methods that I have read used before, though I have never bought a rifle with this much work involved, - the first step would be to take it out of the stock and get good pictures of it, then we can discuss/argue over how best to proceed, the real problem is the blued parts, the barrel you shouldn't use steel wool on, even bronze can be a problem. For bright metal (receiver-bolt) 0000-steel wool is fine, though excess should be avoided. Hopefully it looks better in hand than the auction pictures (which is often the case).

Re-unit markings, it is possible, there are several 1906-1907 with unit markings.

I won it he said it is all matching but you know how that goes. He said the bolt is frozen up should I shoot wd -40 on it and what should I do with all the rust on it. I hope it has unit marks on it I will take picture when I get it. I read were loewe said there was only 10,000 made so I jumped on it View attachment 157486View attachment 157487View attachment 157488View attachment 157489View attachment 157490
 
It was on gb that you said that and it probably was five years ago. That's still low number I didn't know that it had been on there that long I want a gew but I went crazy and bid on a g24t and won it for three hundred so I didn't have enough to get a good gew . I'm like you and I don't shoot them so I don't care if shoot or not its just the history. Thanks again for the great information like I said before if it wasn't for you and others on here we would be screwed not knowing what we have. When I get it I will post pictures.
 
I am not sure how long its been up, but since early December 2015 at least (original folder date). The first text I saved (May 2017) it had an $499 BIN with a undisclosed reserve. It's been on GB since, apparently not meeting reserve.

I think it could have been worth the $500 BIN, but with those pictures and description it is a serious gamble. Almost everything hinges upon how original (matching) it is and how the metal will clean up. The matching element is probably likely to be good, he said the bolt matched and in one picture it does appear to be the case. The stock looks right also, abuse marks line up between the stock and handguard, fit looks good, as does age and wear. The clean up is really a problematic question, the corrosion looks bad on the receiver and parts of the barrel, but near the receiver not so terrible. My bet is some areas are going to need aggressive methods to get it under control, but odds are good it will clean up fairly well. The how is the biggest problem, there is a fine line between enough and too much and that line moves around for most collectors...

I hope it works out and I am glad we will get to see some good pictures of it, I had hoped it would find its way to Gunboards-Mauser or here, - it is a pretty difficult rifle to find factory original, pre-wars are tough to find not reworked or worse!
 
I have been eyeing this rifle for almost two years, made a few offers on it as well. The seller turned me off when I asked for more photos and he told me he wasn't in the position to send any. Anyway super curious to see how this one looks and turns out. I'm sure a nice, gentle, conservative cleaning will do wonders on this rifle.
 
I have been eyeing this rifle for almost two years, made a few offers on it as well. The seller turned me off when I asked for more photos and he told me he wasn't in the position to send any. Anyway super curious to see how this one looks and turns out. I'm sure a nice, gentle, conservative cleaning will do wonders on this rifle.

I thought the same thing on all counts. As to the seller it seemed like he really didn't want to sell it? I also will be interested to see more of this piece.
 
I asked for better pictures too but it's not his gun it's his buddy's . So I talked to the owner and he said it was at a gun shop that he didn't have it. He has a bnz single rune he was trying to sale me if anyone wants his number and of course the pictures were no good it wasn't all matching and I don't know if it's still on gunbroker or not.
 
Also went through a depot. Matching but that rifle did live a hard life. Tired combat warhorse piece. So many of these early rifles were used hard and is the main reason its damn hard too find one 100% factory original.

But I like it its been there and its done alot and it still has its matching stock and bands.

You know I see some many of these early rifles pass through depots with matched bolts done at the depots. But alot of the times these rifles are almost all the rest matching. I wonder what caused so many too have replaced bolts. I could understand replacing broken firing pins and made a safety. But a whole Gew98 bolt is not something that could break easily.

And Lugers are good lol!
 
Well, it sure is original, the bolt a small distraction, but still original (period)

I had hoped a unit marking would show up, but it looks like that is a bust... the real problem, as we knew all along is the cleaning. I can't see this not being a lot of work, especially if you take the appropriate time to do it right, that rust on the barrel will mean no bluing remain and probably bad porosity or pitting.

Damn shame for such an original rifle, rather rare too.

As for the bolts, perhaps it was a safety thing, when collecting rifles from battlefields, you are dealing with loaded rifles. Perhaps it was felt that to prevent accidents (men collecting rifles, stacking, moving them around, - a tedious job that will be dirty and boring) from tossing rifles or pulling rifles, that its best to remove the bolts to make 100% sure the rifles are not dangerous enough for an accidental discharge. It is the easiest way to disarm a rifle, which is why the Brits demilitarized Turk rifles by taking bolts and leaving the heavy rifles when captured. Who knows though, i doubt any book will define the procedure or the activity in any detail, but my bet is based upon knowing something of young men doing tedious jobs, they get careless and distracted, something dangerous around small arms.
 
I'm going to take my time and clean it up and I'm happy with it. And his reserve was $450 but I had to pay $50 shipping which I tried to fight.
 
Just look at the contrast between above and below stock, - original barrel of course, no one could fake that FP.

I agree, the rifle is worth $500, I have sold really nice stocks for $300, though typically $150-200 is more practical. From the looks of it only the bolt has been replaced and it period work.
 

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