Third Party Press

KKW Data from Simpson's compilation:

Bob in OHIO

Senior Member
Bravo for getting the book finished. The DSM serials are beautifully compiled from many sources. I do wish the KKW serials were more expansive, and not limited just to the R. Simpson collection (RSC).

My central question is about production numbers & relative scarcity for each category of KKW, and I attempt to get at that using the frequency of rifles that are report in RSC.

Okay... I propose a complete KKW collection would include the following 7 types (excluding zf-41). The numbers in a [box] reflect the numbers reported from the RSC.

1. bSw ==> [38]
2. Gustloff (w/o a SN on bolt)
3. Gustloff (with bolt SN)
.......... #2 & #3 are not differentiated in the RSC data....==> [151].
4. Gustloff (with E/749 military proof ==> [7]
5. Walther ==> [34]
6. Mauser (small banner) ==> [17]
7. Mauser (large banner) ==> [30]

Simply based on the RSC sample (the best sampling we have).... the relative scarcity ranking is:

Gustloff (E749) < Mauser (sm) < Mauser (Lg) < Walther < bSw << Gustloff

.....(7).................. (17)................(30) .............(34).......(38).......(151)
 
+1 I also wish there was a serial number list for the KKW's. I wish more of my niumbers had made it on the DSM list. I would have liked to see separate lists by maker for the DSM's. I do look forward to reading the entire book as I just received my standard copy yesterday. My deluxe copy is still in transit.
 
+1 I also wish there was a serial number list for the KKW's. I wish more of my niumbers had made it on the DSM list. I would have liked to see separate lists by maker for the DSM's. I do look forward to reading the entire book as I just received my standard copy yesterday. My deluxe copy is still in transit.

There is a chart for every manufacturer at the end of the section, but those only include the ones in Bob Simpson's collection. I have many others recorded which were used as reference for timelines, etc. You are seeing the tip of the iceberg. All of the info simply would not fit, and it is STILL a 700 page metropolitan phone book in size and weight.
Steve
 
... robert simpson was at the ohio gun collectors show today. i spoke with him about some rifles i had. also;;.. i can not remember exactly how many trainer rifles he said he had,,.. but it sure sounded like a lot;.......
 
The limited/partial DSM database was only included at my insistence, because I was certain that collectors would WANT that kind of information. More could have been added to it, and one for the KKW could have been added, but... Now that you have seen the book, you can appreciate how SPACE AVAILABLE was an issue. It was much debated as to the possibility of the work becoming a two-volume presentation (or even three, heaven forbid), but there just were not enough monkeys working to push that rock up to the top of the hill. Should there be a second printing, a KKW list might make it. Another possibility is that someone else will pick up the ball and carry it. We sincerely hope that such matters as "wish it also had ____ in it" and new information coming to light will inspire someone to continue the work to record the history of these firearms and the people who made them.

Steve
 
I sold him a DSM 34 with a Reichsbahn Direktorat Erfurt stamping in the stock at a CADA show in the late 90's, hope he still has it.
 
....Should there be a second printing, a KKW list might make it. Another possibility is that someone else will pick up the ball and carry it. We sincerely hope that such matters as "wish it also had ____ in it" and new information coming to light will inspire someone to continue the work to record the history of these firearms and the people who made them.

Steve

I think Steve makes a good suggestion and this forum provides a good venue for accumulating a kkw list. We need to decide what information beyond the serial number would be useful, perhaps establish a sticky and start building the list. If the publishers are amenable, this might be included in a second printing.
 
... i spoke with him again for a while today. the book looks great and sales seemed to be good. when i asked again how many training rifles he had;.. i think it was eight hundred... yeow..!
 
I will just add one thing

This book was the culmination of over a half century of passionate research by the most serious collectors of the type.

Yes, there is a lot more to the story (we even had it, found more as it went to press).

Trying to find a point to stop and "get it out there" was the hardest part as I believe any producer of any Third Reich firearm publication will tell you.

Trying to put it in order and not interject opinions and assumptions was a priority.

Nearly all the contributors are getting old and some of the most significant and dedicated are in fact, gone.

Those taking the torch from here have a road map with this text and today's media and technology and the means to take it way further.

If you love these interesting rifles, here is your map. GO FOR IT!.

If you need further signs and directions feel free to contact me. I can point you in the right direction.

Just expect to pay some dues, expend a lot of time and money.
 
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Trying to find a point to stop and "get it out there" was the hardest part as I believe any producer of any Third Reich firearm publication will tell you.

+1 to that. Bruce and I had to do the same thing, just say "that's it" and stop. Even in the last few weeks we've found stuff we'd like to add or small things we missed. It's easy to get on forum once a book is out and say "you should have done "X"" or question what was done, it's harder to actually do those things and put them in a book. It's equally hard as an author to not take these as criticism.
 
+1 to that. Bruce and I had to do the same thing, just say "that's it" and stop. Even in the last few weeks we've found stuff we'd like to add or small things we missed. It's easy to get on forum once a book is out and say "you should have done "X"" or question what was done, it's harder to actually do those things and put them in a book. It's equally hard as an author to not take these as criticism.

I can certainly relate to what you are saying. The "you should have done" comments really don't bother me though, I guess. The lack of information or incorrect/incomplete information in several older books was a major motivator for me to beat myself half senseless doing this book, actually. And, I do sincerely hope that it will inspire others to continue the work.
Steve
 

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