1918 Danzig
- Thread starter dla
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pzjgr
EOD - bombs and bullets
Looks like some sort of rifle....
It is a late war Kar 98a, made in Danzig...that's about all that can be told from two pics...
Is it all matching? Unmolested?
Looks like it is missing its handguard at least, and has some pitting, stock may have been sanded too...gonna need more pics...
It is a late war Kar 98a, made in Danzig...that's about all that can be told from two pics...
Is it all matching? Unmolested?
Looks like it is missing its handguard at least, and has some pitting, stock may have been sanded too...gonna need more pics...
Warrior1354
ax - hole
Looks like it may have some stock issues looks like the stock was coated with something from the pictures. It's also missing the front handguard. More pictures are must too let you know what you have. I will say this finding a kar98a carbine that is all matching is not easy. Most of these were used up in the interwar period not to mention we're heavily sporterized for their actions in the 20s period.
Looks like some sort of rifle....
It is a late war Kar 98a, made in Danzig...that's about all that can be told from two pics...
Is it all matching? Unmolested?
Looks like it is missing its handguard at least, and has some pitting, stock may have been sanded too...gonna need more pics...
It is not matching. Stock has been cut down no top hanguard
Warrior1354
ax - hole
Has the barrel been cut too?
Regrettably this was very common with these rifles. They were quite praised for their lightness, their actions, and their quality. A lot of them ended up being sporterized for those very reasons. But in those days it was more of a hunting rifle than a collectible one.
Regrettably this was very common with these rifles. They were quite praised for their lightness, their actions, and their quality. A lot of them ended up being sporterized for those very reasons. But in those days it was more of a hunting rifle than a collectible one.
pzjgr
EOD - bombs and bullets
Loewe, I am sure, can tell you everything you could want to know about the Kar 98a...but essentially, yes it was a karabiner length gun made for Cav, Arty, Engineers, etc that needed a smaller handier rifle than infantry.
It is based on a small ring Mauser action, not a large ring like the Gew 98, and 98k...
It would be a nice rifle, but that cut down stock kills it...to restore it would be an expensive proposition with parts not easy to find.
Hopefully Loewe will say for sure, but I think 1918 dated Kar's are pretty scarce...
It is based on a small ring Mauser action, not a large ring like the Gew 98, and 98k...
It would be a nice rifle, but that cut down stock kills it...to restore it would be an expensive proposition with parts not easy to find.
Hopefully Loewe will say for sure, but I think 1918 dated Kar's are pretty scarce...
So this is a different stock than the K98. What would I search for when it comes to stock and parts?
Danzig/18 is fairly hard to find in original condition, I have seen a few in Imperial condition, but the vast majority known are interwar rifles that have been sportered (like this one). I once bought a really fine specimen from JPS, one of the moderators at Gunboards-Mauser, damn thing was like new (refurbished new). But the rifle is only really rare in Imperial condition, meaning as it left the factory... most that survived seem to have stayed in German hands, most probably never made it to the western front to be captured and the Germans didn't surrender rifles to the Entente after the Armistice. Danzig is not only a long way from France, it seem very likely Danzig did not take up production of the 98a until well into 1918, no one really knows "when", but considering they made the Gewehr98 during 1918, it is probable 98a production did not begin until early/mid-1918. So few made it west... at least few have survived in their original condition, - Erfurt/17-18's are rather common in original condition, though huge numbers were made too.
As for this rifle, the bolt is m/m, the stock probably not restorable, so from an economic perspective its not worth restoring because the stock/handguard would cost double what the action is worth. Best to keep it as is and use it for hunting, I have one I use all the time, they are very handy and light rifles to haul around.
More pictures would be needed to tell you much about the rifle, where it falls in production, whether it was kept by the Germans after the war etc.. markings matter for this type of information, these overviews are useless in that regard... but offhand, I'd bet its an interwar rework, most are.
As for this rifle, the bolt is m/m, the stock probably not restorable, so from an economic perspective its not worth restoring because the stock/handguard would cost double what the action is worth. Best to keep it as is and use it for hunting, I have one I use all the time, they are very handy and light rifles to haul around.
More pictures would be needed to tell you much about the rifle, where it falls in production, whether it was kept by the Germans after the war etc.. markings matter for this type of information, these overviews are useless in that regard... but offhand, I'd bet its an interwar rework, most are.
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Well, its a fairly early Danzig/18, a d-block, which means it was probably made in the middle of 1918. I don't suppose you have any markings on the stock? Does the follower stop the bolt (hold the bolt back) on empty? Any markings on the buttplate?
Odds are good this is a rifle that stayed in German hands, perhaps brought back after WWII, but the evidence would have primarily been on the stock. Rifles show their history (depot visits, unit markings) primarily on the stocks, if the stock is mismatched or harshly sportered (markings obliterated) we can only guess about a rifles history. For instance, if the follower stops the bolt, it is almost for sure a postwar modification (though I have seen sporterised "Imperial" rifles with this feature, probably done by American hunters), there is also a rear sight modification attributable to postwar, also often if a rifle served Germany in some fashion (Freikorps, EW, Reichsheer, RM, railroad, etc..) after the war they are often marked in some way, though usually on the stock.
Biggest problem with evaluating a Kar.98a is that this carbine was not continued after the war. The German authorities stopped making the rifle and most components, only stocks were continued and they in small numbers. So, because replacement parts would in all instances be from salvaged rifles, it is difficult to distinguish between parts replaced after 1918.
Anyway, if your stock has any markings at all and it matches (it should have a matching number inside the barrel channel) post them. If the barrel has any markings this may offer a clue also, though it looks like the original barrel and it probably will not aid in a determination of post war history.
Odds are good this is a rifle that stayed in German hands, perhaps brought back after WWII, but the evidence would have primarily been on the stock. Rifles show their history (depot visits, unit markings) primarily on the stocks, if the stock is mismatched or harshly sportered (markings obliterated) we can only guess about a rifles history. For instance, if the follower stops the bolt, it is almost for sure a postwar modification (though I have seen sporterised "Imperial" rifles with this feature, probably done by American hunters), there is also a rear sight modification attributable to postwar, also often if a rifle served Germany in some fashion (Freikorps, EW, Reichsheer, RM, railroad, etc..) after the war they are often marked in some way, though usually on the stock.
Biggest problem with evaluating a Kar.98a is that this carbine was not continued after the war. The German authorities stopped making the rifle and most components, only stocks were continued and they in small numbers. So, because replacement parts would in all instances be from salvaged rifles, it is difficult to distinguish between parts replaced after 1918.
Anyway, if your stock has any markings at all and it matches (it should have a matching number inside the barrel channel) post them. If the barrel has any markings this may offer a clue also, though it looks like the original barrel and it probably will not aid in a determination of post war history.
The follower does stop the bolt on empty. I will look for any markings on the stock and also in the barrel channel. Thanks for the info. I just wish the stock had not been cut.
The 1090 "might" be a "1920" property marking, though it doesn't really look like a "1920", it looks like its in the right position, typically on the left buttstock. But as the stock doesn't match the receiver this doesn't really matter, as it is mismatched and not original to any German work.
The follower also would only matter if it is original to the rifle, meaning serialed (last two digits) to the rifle, so assuming the trigger guard assembly is probably mismatched it doesn't matter to our evaluation. If the TG assembly does match and the follower is serialed (last two digits) and its blued, it would be a clear sign of postwar service. Imperial followers are bright metal and do not stop the bolt on empty, Reichswehr/Reichsheer do, - but also some hunters notch the followers to have this handy feature, though naturally they do not blue the followers (typically)
Hard to say whether it is Imperial or interwar, no signs of interwar so far, no sure ones anyway, but as the only matching parts are the barreled receiver, it is hardly worth the expense of restoring. Especially when the metal has porosity and wear. Danzig/18's are much scarcer than Erfurt/18's but they aren't that hard to find as actions. I would keep or sell it as is, a sporter/hunter, they are handy for that purpose, it isn't worth restoring, if that is the original question.
The follower also would only matter if it is original to the rifle, meaning serialed (last two digits) to the rifle, so assuming the trigger guard assembly is probably mismatched it doesn't matter to our evaluation. If the TG assembly does match and the follower is serialed (last two digits) and its blued, it would be a clear sign of postwar service. Imperial followers are bright metal and do not stop the bolt on empty, Reichswehr/Reichsheer do, - but also some hunters notch the followers to have this handy feature, though naturally they do not blue the followers (typically)
Hard to say whether it is Imperial or interwar, no signs of interwar so far, no sure ones anyway, but as the only matching parts are the barreled receiver, it is hardly worth the expense of restoring. Especially when the metal has porosity and wear. Danzig/18's are much scarcer than Erfurt/18's but they aren't that hard to find as actions. I would keep or sell it as is, a sporter/hunter, they are handy for that purpose, it isn't worth restoring, if that is the original question.
Not much to a collector, as a hunting rifle a few hundred. The only bright spot is the bolt maybe worth something. Maybe a Gustloff bolt body, maybe another firm, but 98k bolts, even bolt bodies, are worth something.
Probably worth more parting it out, but hard to say, a lot of crazy people on gunbroker.
Probably worth more parting it out, but hard to say, a lot of crazy people on gunbroker.
JCsomethingesle
Registered
I have a similar rifle
It has been cleaned up and fired since these pictures were taken. It is a WWII bring back, nothing was done to it since it was brought here, the metal peice on the front end is clearly broken. Is there anything more you might be able to tell me about it?
It has been cleaned up and fired since these pictures were taken. It is a WWII bring back, nothing was done to it since it was brought here, the metal peice on the front end is clearly broken. Is there anything more you might be able to tell me about it?
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