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Thread: Sodcasts: Exposing Fakery Videos

  1. #101
    Community Organizer Hambone's Avatar
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    Jo, all badges and such were die struck at that time? It seems with the magnification you use that it absolutely exposes these as fakes if it is acknowledged that these were not cast. That is, it's like magnification exposing what is supposed to be a celluloid based decal as an airbrush painted stencil job. Good stuff
    “Not every item of news should be published. Rather must those who control news policies endeavor to make every item of news serve a certain purpose.” - Dr. Joseph Goebbels, Reich Ministry of Public Enlightenment and Propaganda, 1933-1945

  2. #102
    Master Sodcaster Micro Jo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hambone View Post
    Jo, all badges and such were die struck at that time? It seems with the magnification you use that it absolutely exposes these as fakes if it is acknowledged that these were not cast. That is, it's like magnification exposing what is supposed to be a celluloid based decal as an airbrush painted stencil job. Good stuff
    You are starting to sound like Stan now.. "If they were cast, then that`s how they were made."
    I`d prefer the SSCollector approach to these, "Oh that`s a POS cast fake Frontbann he exposed, but mine is not the same, even though it looks the same, and no I can`t take better images coz the camera`s broke. let`s leave it at that chaps and move on." (They really have moved on, on the WAF Quedlinburg thread, I kid you not, that`s how desparate they are to keep the dream alive.)
    LOL, No, under no circumstances whatsoever were Frontbann awards cast. No item like this is cast, ever, it just never happened.
    Well it did after the war by forgers that do not have the equipment to correctly produce an item.

    Anything that comes from/through the medal industry in Germany is correctly produced. If you could put a Frontbann marked Z.M.Ost under the scope, you`d soon see that it was correctly produced. Yet that would still not stop some who need to keep their dreams alive, and they`d argue that "Oh in the beginning in the mid-1920`s they were correctly produced, then just before they were outlawed in 1934 they were suddenly cast. The medal industry threw all their equipment away, reschooled all their workers to learn how to cast items, and for a very brief few weeks, days even, cast these awards. And then plated them heavily and faked the patina."
    "If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they’ll kill you." Oscar Wilde

  3. #103
    No War Eagles For You! mrfarb's Avatar
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    I think he’s asking, were any badges cast in the 3R era? Forgive me for not knowing, I don’t collect badges.


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  4. #104
    Moderator Peter U's Avatar
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    Why use a casting technique if you have the knowledge and equipment to die strike? On top of that die struck pieces are of a better quality.


    I don't collect badges or medals either but what I don't understand is that so many medal and badge collectors have been putting their trust and hard earned money in the naked eye expertise of militaria show big wigs that turned later in to forum big wigs.

  5. #105
    Community Organizer Hambone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrfarb View Post
    I think he’s asking, were any badges cast in the 3R era? Forgive me for not knowing, I don’t collect badges.

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    Thank you. I don't know either though I presumed they were not. That question was for me and the rest of us who don't know to clarify. It makes it all the more quite stunning given the amount of money involved if all originals are supposed to be die struck / sheared and they are cast fakes. Of course, that makes Jo a "hobby anarchist" who is "destroying the hobby" Is it better for the hobby that its masses be ripped off by a few and remain ignorant and happy?
    “Not every item of news should be published. Rather must those who control news policies endeavor to make every item of news serve a certain purpose.” - Dr. Joseph Goebbels, Reich Ministry of Public Enlightenment and Propaganda, 1933-1945

  6. #106
    Master Sodcaster Micro Jo's Avatar
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    I`ll try my best to take what is a hugely complicated subject and address it in a few lines.

    Of course, items were cast, we have been casting everything for the past 1 million or 100 million years that we have been on earth, and with medals and coins and metal trinkets it is no different.
    Even during the Third Reich there are cast small "things." Jewelers cast jewelry, Winterhilfswerk items were in some cases cast roughly at home or in small private workshops, workshops full of invalids and old people were also given contracts to cast small amounts of "stuff" for all sorts of unofficial events, fasnacht, carnivals etc... They still do/are today. Some medals are cast from retrieved metals of a ship that went down, etc etc… there are all kinds of examples.
    BUT, the (regulated and controlled) medal industry in Germany responsible for producing official awards, pins and badges did not cast items. They were made the same as they have been for the past 400 or so years. (The easiest way.)
    There are simple steps from the idea of something, through to design-prototype, and then regular production.
    Do you have any idea how long it would take to cast 5000 badges or awards? If produced correctly, it would take half an hour to strike them. Cast..years!
    And what about complicated multipiece items with numbers on them indicating that there were literally thousands of them made? Like the fake cast Miliärverwaltungsabzeichen I exposed as fake? The people that just claim “Oh then this is how they were made” have no idea what they are talking about, it would be more or less impossible to cast thousands of them, whereas using the normal correct ways, it would take no time at all.

    The German medal industry did of course go through changes, with the introduction of plastic injection molding, and later metal injection molding (Spritzguss) but limited changes, that only applied to certain areas, certain metals, certain periods, certain items and a few selected makers who had the new machinery.
    And, all these changes are well documented in detail in the German medal industries announcement papers. From start to finish, from day 1 to the very end.

    No official badge, award, membership pin is cast.

    If this Frontbann award was something really special, and only a few were made, say by a jeweler, then I guess one could suggest that they "could" be cast, but this would also be wrong, as these kinds of items are just, and were not, cast, the whole procedure of casting an item has nothing to do with medal/award/badge production, and is mainly used in reproducing an item, i.e: faking items. With no need to create any design, and simply stealing it by taking an original, and creating a mold from the finished item.

    So, anyone who suggests that awards and medals and badges were cast, they need to come up with an explanation of how items are actually cast first. To date none of them have, simply because none of them understand the way a cast item is made, nor do they understand how a genuine is made, nor do they ever intend to either, they just want to ra ra that whatever a microscopic examination shows, is irrelevant because the item they own is genuine - end of story.

    To suggest that “Oh that was just cast then.. that`s how they did it” you are suggesting that the award/badge went through all the normal steps of badge production, from idea, to plaster design, to metal Galvano, to reduced working dies and then …. This is the best part…. After all the normal expensive work was done, striking dies were made, shearing dies were made, the item was produced – ONCE ONLY. Yes, one item was struck, and then that struck, finished item was used to press into a medium to create a mold, for molten metal to be poured into. So that what is a very basic and speedy process, can be drawn out into a most complicated and long procedure that in all reality could not be achieved in any high numbers. And who did this job too? People trained to work in a medal factory? Die cutters and engravers? Skilled people earning a good wage suddenly throw all their knowledge out the window and go back to cave-man methods? They would still be trying to finish contracts of tens of thousands of items to this day. And many contracts were for millions upon millions of the same item.

    I translated the 1935 segment from the German medal industries papers for the 2013 PB book, an interesting part explaining in detail how awards and badges are made, under the medal industries own title: How are Awards and Badges made?
    Just an example of what period info we have, when it comes to this subject. In fact, we have it all, and when it comes to the very few exceptions where items were injection molded, or for example the Ostfront Medals in zinc where the rohlinge were first cast, then die struck, we have it all in extreme detail from the horse’s mouth as to why these unusual steps were taken. When, by whom etc.. everything.

    Now with the Frontbann award, we know that it was an official award, and it`s documented in period catalogs and official regulation papers from the mid-1920`s until the last time it was allowed to be worn (and made obviously)
    And because of the markings on them, RZM followed by the makers license number, it is impossible for anyone to suggest that they are anything but an official item. (i.e could not be jeweler-made/cast) They are also shown in official papers and referenced as being an official award.
    I don`t agree that they (originals) are RZM marked, and will address that in part II of the video, but that still does not change the status of the mass-produced Frontbann award. (Mass-produced to me, is anything made in the thousands)
    Last edited by Micro Jo; 02-14-2018 at 04:11 PM. Reason: date change 1934-1935, and spellink
    "If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they’ll kill you." Oscar Wilde

  7. #107
    Master Sodcaster Micro Jo's Avatar
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    And with these horribly cast items that "well they were just made that way and are still real" those shilling for them love to ignore the logical questions that a microscopic examination reveals.
    If we take the recent Militärverwaltungsabzeichen, that Stan-the-man as well as another Belgian forum bigwig are shilling for even after watching the videos, to them they still must be real, yet won`t explain why the faker who cast them, added "fake" rivet mounds on each side, to fool the naked eye into believeing that both pieces were riveted together.

    WHY? If for some strange reason they were genuine, and made in May 1945, no other materials were available, Germany was bankrupt, the only "medal maker" left who could handle the order needed to cast them, WHY would they include "fake" rivet mounds? What is the logical explanation for them?

    2-0009.jpg2-0010.jpg2-0011.jpg

    The logical explanation is of course to fool collectors into believing that they are a two piece construction, correctly riveted together. But aknowledging that would mean accepting the microscopic examination - which many can not afford to. As the videos are shopwing each time with new scams, we are talking about huge amounts of money, many items, many decades of wrong books and wrong ra ra. So best to just claim that these things were cast from the get-go, it will save face and money later on, as more scams are revealed.

    Exposing the fake not only mean losing money, but also damaged reputations. So I fully accept and know that the backlash will continue forever.
    Take Stan-the-man, I have shown twice now how wrong he is, and when you look deeper, he has medals worth up to 40 000 each! (or so he claims on forums) One of which i believe is also a cast fake, but that will be addressed much later. So there always will be this group of fools that will band together to do their utmost to discredit anything I expose. The last resort is to just brush it all aside with a sweeping "Oh well that`s how they were made then" and then move on, never bothering to address anything like "the fake rivets" etc...

    They need to, and have no other option but to. Their group grows by the day as well, as it is easier to join the screaming monkeys and save money and face, than it is to come clean and accept the logical, the plain and simple, accept the same "evidence" that is used in courts of law around the world today.

    I wonder how they would react if they got burgled, lost their entire collections and contents of their house, and when the cops came around and said "We will not do any forensics or look for any fingerprints, because that`s all bogus anyway and useless"? No, they would insist, and right then and there a microscopic examination that would be benificial to them, would be the be-all-end-all. and gladly accepted.
    "If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they’ll kill you." Oscar Wilde

  8. #108
    Community Organizer Hambone's Avatar
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    Thank you for the explanation. This is necessary for those of us with an interest in this topic, but without the background knowledge or expertise. I fail to see how anyone can advocate with a straight face that an official badge that would be die struck shows that it is case on microscopic examination.

    For us, Jo, an analysis of the combat badges and awards would be most helpful. All of those should be die struck, not cast.
    “Not every item of news should be published. Rather must those who control news policies endeavor to make every item of news serve a certain purpose.” - Dr. Joseph Goebbels, Reich Ministry of Public Enlightenment and Propaganda, 1933-1945

  9. #109
    Master Sodcaster Micro Jo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hambone View Post
    For us, Jo, an analysis of the combat badges and awards would be most helpful. All of those should be die struck, not cast.
    Yes they were, this is all well documented. And although there were many makers, there are not going to be that many variations. For sure there will be some, with dies and designs varying slightly, hence the need for the LDO at the start of the 40`s, to get all makers dancing to one tune, and to fully standardize "the item" as there were still some makers doing things they were not supposed to.
    In most cases when another maker was contracted to produce "something" they were also told where to aquire the working dies, or designs. But there were always those doing what they wanted, hence slight variations in almost everything. The NSDAP membership badge is a great example of this, being such a banal item yet varying greatly over it`s 25 years of existance. Even after the RZM fully regulated the official badge market with designs and die producers, you can still find slight variations, slight "personal touches" on many of them.
    One thing they will all have in common, though, is the way they were made. Correctly, mechanically struck, mechanically sheared, and then ungergoing various stages of chemical cleaning, coating/gilding/painting/frosting and so on. (The dressing up of an award or badge will never change the way it was made, though.)
    So the best way to get to the bottom of things is to strip the item back to it`s raw state. Forget any attachment or what it looks like, and just start witha detailed look at the way it was produced. Figure out what transferred the design onto the piece of metal, and what shaped it. With cast awards, no matter how well cast, you will allways expose them off the bat by simply doing that, with no need to worry about any of the finer details. (Attachments, gilding, what books say or collector lore claims)

    I am going to be working on a scam about "combat awards" after I have finished the Frontbann video II, but I can`t say what it is just yet. It`s an old scam goingback to the 70`s. Someone is helping organize a few of the "items" that will be looked at in greater detail than they have so far. And it will take me quite some time too.

    Otherwise I seldom run into them to look at, not my field of interest at all.
    "If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they’ll kill you." Oscar Wilde

  10. #110
    Master Sodcaster Micro Jo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micro Jo View Post
    .
    I translated the 1935 segment from the German medal industries papers for the 2013 PB book, an interesting part explaining in detail how awards and badges are made, under the medal industries own title: How are Awards and Badges made?
    Here...
    DSCN0923.jpgDSCN0924.jpg
    "If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they’ll kill you." Oscar Wilde

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