Third Party Press

MO commercial Gew

zf498

Member
Nice 109 year old rifle. More pictures to come. Must stop for now.
 

Attachments

  • DSC02201.JPG
    DSC02201.JPG
    74.4 KB · Views: 66
  • DSC02194.JPG
    DSC02194.JPG
    90.1 KB · Views: 63
  • DSC02195.JPG
    DSC02195.JPG
    99.8 KB · Views: 58
  • DSC02196.JPG
    DSC02196.JPG
    86.6 KB · Views: 51
  • DSC02197.JPG
    DSC02197.JPG
    82.6 KB · Views: 62
  • DSC02199.JPG
    DSC02199.JPG
    62.7 KB · Views: 50
  • DSC02183.JPG
    DSC02183.JPG
    77.4 KB · Views: 50
  • DSC02184.JPG
    DSC02184.JPG
    116.5 KB · Views: 51
  • DSC02192.JPG
    DSC02192.JPG
    143 KB · Views: 47
  • DSC02198.JPG
    DSC02198.JPG
    94.6 KB · Views: 45
  • DSC02200.JPG
    DSC02200.JPG
    138.5 KB · Views: 44
  • DSC02191.JPG
    DSC02191.JPG
    105.7 KB · Views: 48
Pretty damn nice, I like the fit on these, some serious craftsmanship... although these are outside on my interest, I do have a database on them and although many have survived in pretty piss poor condition (which means its hard to characterize any real consistency in the variation, or variations), they do seem to follow a general serialing sequence, meaning the serial number advances without rolling over year to year, though there is some outliers that suggest different variations at work (Jon Speed once stated this was in part due to post WWI sales, scrubbed receiver dates, barrel grooves changes, etc..), but some are due to foreign or contract sales.

I believe I posted several threads of Jon Speed's on these Wehrmannsgewehr's (serviceman's/reservists rifles), possibly on Gunboards-Mauser (only Gunboards forum I ever participate on these days...), perhaps here.
 
more pics

This rifle is rust blued as evidenced by the 'in the white' raceways. All numbers match that I have found(haven't taken the stock off yet). Bubba had a pipe wrench on the barrel just in back of the rear sight an before the serial number. I guess he gave up and decided not to do any more damage. The barrel length is just shy of 24 inches. The bolt head surrounds the cartridge base completely except for the ejector cut. Caliber is 8.15X46R. It has the narrow extractor hook. The cartouche behind rear trigger guard looks like an 'M' over 'W' if bisected horizontally through the diamonds center. "M"auser "W"affenfabrik?

Most rifles for military or commercial sales in the 1898 thru 1918 period have receivers in the white. This example IMHO is factory rust blued. Strange? The serial number checks to the mid 1920. Also strange! Bolt is also bent and not straight.??

zf498
 

Attachments

  • DSC02169.jpg
    DSC02169.jpg
    275 KB · Views: 27
  • DSC02178.JPG
    DSC02178.JPG
    118 KB · Views: 32
  • DSC02179.JPG
    DSC02179.JPG
    155.4 KB · Views: 31
  • DSC02186.JPG
    DSC02186.JPG
    62.6 KB · Views: 33
  • DSC02180.JPG
    DSC02180.JPG
    94.1 KB · Views: 28
  • DSC02188.JPG
    DSC02188.JPG
    65.3 KB · Views: 27
  • DSC02190.JPG
    DSC02190.JPG
    100.2 KB · Views: 29
  • DSC02193.JPG
    DSC02193.JPG
    89.1 KB · Views: 34
Last edited:
Small parts such as the Ejector Box Spring and trigger guard screws were fire blued as opposed to rust blued, that brilliant metallic blue color is the result....fire bluing is very distinct, and beautiful when done correctly...
 
Jon Speed once mentioned that some/many of these early receivers were either scrubbed of their dates and re-barreled (number of grooves) or otherwise refurbished at Mauser in the interwar period. I am no authority on these at all, but I would imagine this is some interwar rework, build, salvage or whatever... I do not know enough to really guess, but you might see if this is 4 or 6 grooved barrel, - when i posted my reply I reviewed some of Jon Speed's earlier comments, I believe he said pre-war is 4 groves (possibly an option of 4 or 6), and interwar only 6 grooves, no option. He said it was common for pre-war receivers to find their way into interwar production (whether leftovers on hand or whether Mauser refurbished previously sold I do not know).

By the way, I am not pretending to know what your rifle is exactly... but I will send a link to Jon Speed and if he has something to say I will post it here.
 
I confused the comment, below is Jon Speed's comments from a year or two ago. I emailed the link to him, perhaps he will have more to say if he examines the pictures you posted.

Paul, I guess I overlooked the bore image which is 4 groove which would then indicate to me the rifle was set up for the 7.92 for lead bullet for target Not 8.15 R target? Question is why any one modified the extractor since the 8.15 R rim is only slightly larger than the 7.92. Most of the 7.92 for lead bullet rifles were made Pre WW1. Also some odd things in regards to the commercial style SN on these early rifles is they dont jive with pre war or post war Mauser Commercial serial numbers on sporters ! I only learned this some years ago when I did when I started studying serial numbers with a few actual known dates and not any ring dates that were sometimes left on and caused more confusion. Also the firm Mauser scrubbed many of the dates off of G 98 actions when they were used to make up such target rifles etc. Jon


and...

Paul More to add on the G 98k made up for target rounds for lead bullets most likely in 8.15X46 R as noted from the under barrel bore/groove data on rifle in question.
1. Front page 1908 period the very first ADD by Firm Mauser offering modified G 98 rifles set up for use with lead bullets both offered for normal 7.92 cartridge and 8.15X46 R.
1. Page 2 descriptions
3. Page 3 shows cartridge descriptions.
4. Comparing Pre WW1 7,92 hunting round with 8.15X46 R
Rim on 7.92 is 11,950 mm Rim on 81.15X46R is 12,350 mm

Ok now its most likely that in the pre WW1 period they used the same barrels from 7.92 rifles and simply chambered them for the 8.15X46 R which worked ok but was not optimum set up. In Post WW1 examples new barrels were offered and became standard on all Totally new made rifles in 8.15X46 R with 6 grooves which became standard in the industry. Of course price played a role in all this but the 8.15X46 R became one of the most commonly used target rounds as time went on from its creation in late 1890 period. In the ad description there is NO mention of offering new 6 grooved barrels while in post WW1 adds from late 1920 period only new 6 grooved barrels were offered etc. Interesting in my study form Mauser sales books is that the first G 98k type Target rifles were sold in 1907/08 period Not earlier ! Ok thats all I can add to this story accept many German target shooters re loaded their own rounds. Jon

and...

Paul,one added point on the 8.15X46 R pre WW1 G 98k type target rifles by Mauser as they put in a hard wood unit with shallow loing dished out portion to drop the round into and operate rifle as single loader. Many times this item gets lost but occasionally remain with rifles which adds to the true history of these. Also rear sight has small markings on one side to show the 150 and 300 meter positions. Jon

 
Jon Speed's new comments

Paul, that's a beautiful example of Pre WW1 8.15X46 R target rifle that was finished in full Commercial style with rust blue technique like on sporters. Only extra comment is the SN does NOT relate to the time period of the commercial sporters but is some form of in house record keeping series as we have the same rifle model and date here in Germany on the E gun site in exact same SN 88XXX range. Similar Rifles have a wild set of SN ranges from 2,3,4,5 digits with dated receivers and with dates scrubbed by factory along with scrubbing the G 98 designation on in white receivers etc. Most Post WW1 rifles from 1920 used the BUG proofs but some inventory receivers Post WW1 still had BU proofs so its all a bit cloudy on these target rifles as Mauser was using up parts from inventory to build many of these. The rifle in this talk is the finest example I have ever seen and could have been 1 of small group of early examples done up in best commercial style but then cost factors came into play on a model with very low sales etc. Wonderful Collectors example. That's all I can add to this. It was only a few years ago that from having enough SN data that I saw the SN on many did not jive with dates etc. Regards, Jon

and later...

Paul, the target rifle talk shows how firms like Mauser did Not always have a final plan for certain products as they tested the markets and the Military type target rifles in 8.15 X 46 R and in normal 8X57 for lead bullet only were such an item. I see now the same rifle type with 88XXX SN range sold on E gun last night but this rifle system was in White form etc. No question as we build up data sources then we can make new determinations on certain issues so its great fun to keep learning and digging for new data. Regards, Jon
 
....fire bluing is very distinct, and beautiful when done correctly...

Agreed and it's very well done in this example. The ejector spring and top of the action screw really shows off the color and it's quite vivid.
 

Military Rifle Journal
Back
Top