Amberg 1883 JG Mod 71, Just a Tease for Now....and Unit Mark Question

Amberg 1883 JG Mod 71, Just a Tease for Now....and Unit Mark Question...Some Pics Up

Well, had to fly up to Buffalo 2 weeks ago, visited my best friend and son's Godfather...and my main pusher (of guns, known the guy for 30 years, I hate to think how much money I've given him!).

He had in his rack a nice Amberg 1883 dated JG Mod 71....it was intriguing to me, as I have never seen or owned one...I've owned a few 71/84's over the years, but never a straight 71. Sucker is heavy, and very well made and fitted, real Old World craftsmanship....looked to be all matching, and really in pretty nice shape.

I had just culled some nice US blades from my collection, and he could use them, so I told him I'd send him pics in trade towards the 71...I did, and we worked a deal. He had $650 on the 71, and I figured $250 in trade for the blades, so it only cost me $400 cash money.

He sent it to me, and alas, 15 minutes before I head out to Midland until Friday for work, it arrives, so I only had time to unpack it, and caress it a little before I took off...but I will be working it when I get home, getting pics and posting them here....

Here is one question to start, it is unit marked on the butt plate tang... B. over E.B over numbers...I assume the first B is for Bayerische...the E.B...could it be anything cool, or is it just Ersatz Battalion? I should have grabbed a quick pic before I left, but forgot, and cannot remember the number under the E.B. off the top of my head.

When I get back, I'll be carefully detail stripping it, gently cleaning it up a bit, and getting shots of all the markings for posting....

You're such an Imperial tease not cool! And yes the 71 Mausers have some of the best workmanship on a rifle that I have ever seen. To this day I still think why on Earth would you make a rifle so nice as a weapon of War? Can't wait to see it and have a safe trip home.

Bayerische Eisenbahn Betriebskompanie

Amberg said:

Bayerische Eisenbahn Betriebskompanie

Click to expand...

Awesome, that's what I was hoping for, an interesting unit...and that's what I was thinking, but wasn't sure...

OK,

Played with it a bit late last night after I got home, and took some quick pics...LOTS of inspection marks on these!

Don't know what the "M" stamps in stock under bolt.....I assume the "13" near the nosecap is a rack number of some sort, maybe the handcarved 16 in the butt too?

Like I said, love the unit markings....not in too bad shape for a 125 year old gun!

Will get more pics as I go, but I will be out of town most of the next two weeks, so this may take a while....

Is 5019 the serial number? I added it to the study underway, but like to make sure its correct.

These are nice rifles by the way, however if you are not careful you may end up buying a new expensive book! Storz's book on these is pretty good, his access to period material, documents and museum rifles, makes the books essential if you collect German military rifles. Lots of crossover value, - which I have long been a fan of the technique. (it gives your research depth as most of the firms were engaged in several things while they were making the rifles, often these other activities explain why the rifles trends develop a particular way)

Hey Paul I was hoping you would weigh in....I know little to nothing about these...as I said I have owned several 71/84's over the years, but never a 71, actually never even seen one in the wild...

That is a negative on that s/n, it is 5049, not 5019...

Is that normal for all those inspection marks on it?

I have it completely apart to give it a gentle cleaning and lube, like I said, I will get detail shots of all numbers and details and post them when I can....

I am relatively new to the M71 and 71/84 variations, Craig Brown near the end of his life was able to educate me on the subject and we did begin the studies together in this forum, but all that was interrupted by his sudden death. He never did finish the outlines, but was working on them, once i learn more, get a firmer grip on the variations, I will try to finish what he began on the outlines and descriptions.

Since then I have kept up with adding new rifles as they show up or are reported, and we are making progress, however to answer your question, - yes a great many more acceptance (inspection) stamps were used on these models, this is certainly a product of hand-craftsmanship and early mechanization of production. When the M71 came out Loewe was still a small company and not a maker of large machinery that would later play a major role in tooling up the rifle factories and arsenals. I wrote a little about Pratt & Whitney and Loewe in regards to supplying the arsenals - one of Pratt & Whitney's most famous achievements was obtaining and completing the modernization of the Prussian arsenals for the M71 (American made machines played a major role in your rifles creation - 1.6 million 19th Century US dollars worth of machinery and expertise the German government paid for... a huge sum in today's dollars, many do not realize that Germany was just starting out on its industrialization at the time, the country was largely agricultural before the 1840's, textiles and wool industries, Pratt & Whitney helped change that, for a price of course, the English too played a major role... the earliest German trains were operated by Englishmen! Germany's great achievement is completing the process of industrialization so quickly compared to the English and American process, though this was made easier because to catch up only requires learning methods already developed, but the German's were soon to lead in many fields, largely because of the nature of the society/culture, one with less divisions, more paternalistic outlooks, Germany never had the level of unrest with labor that the US and England had, and the German government worked hand in hand with industrialists to further the process)

Anyway, I do not know enough about the M.71 to give you the level of detail I generally can with the Mod.98 variations, but the other markings I suspect are rack numbers or something along those lines, possibly foreign, but your rifle is the final variation and as you can see in the trends thread, the model designation is different on these. Storz could be a useful addition to your library if these have a future in your collection. Like all his books they give an excellent view to period documents and museum examples, but they are light on collector contributions. Little in the way of information that could explain some post manufacture markings...

Paul I truly appreciate the information you always graciously supply, it is always interesting and enlightening.

I did not know that about Pratt & Whitney...very interesting stuff!

Are you talking about Volume I of German Military Rifles? I see Volume II came out, but covers the Mod 88 and 91, so I assume Vol I would have the 71 and 71/84?

I will definitely have to pick up a copy both eventually.

As I said, I will be posting more pics as I work on it, when I am in town on the weekends.

Yes, Volume one covers these earlier rifles (and others beside), imo volume one is better than the Modell98 (V3), though that may be because I knew much more about the Modell98 than I do the M71 & 71/84.... all his books are worth getting though. I am sure Storz discusses P&W in some detail, in this regard, but John Walters does as well, so do most authors on the subject (kind of difficult to ignore). Of course every meaningful study on P&W mentions this fact too, it was a huge achievement for the company at the time, - Francis Pratt made several trips to Germany during this period and the company use to tout the letter the Prussian authorities sent the company thanking them for their services. This was just one of many (the greatest though, it solidified their reputation) projects P&W undertook to modernize arsenals around the world... back then America was vastly different, of course, not a great military power, generally non-interventionist outside of this hemisphere, a country where the military was not seen as the country's "greatness", rather the military existed to allow men such as Francis Pratt, Amos Whitney, Joseph Brown, Lucian Sharpe and hundreds of other inventors to make this country great through their talent. To build and create something, employ men and advance technology...

As promised, as I worked on it, I took pictures of every part and marking, since I figure there haven't been too many forensic dissections of these...

I will work on getting them all posted, and when I am home again this weekend, I will get some overall shots...

Receiver first...and cleaning rod...rod not numbered, but does have acceptance...

Trigger Guard Assembly...

Interestingly (or not) the stock does not match, and the steel trigger guard base matches the stock, but the brass trigger guard matches the rifle, as does the screw for the sling swivel...and the screws match the rifle....screws are somewhat buggered...not by me!

Trigger and Sear assembly....

Rear sight leaf, nosecap, and bands....

Stock and buttplate....after some gentle cleaning, the stock markings really came out....again, the stock and the steel trigger guard flat do not match the gun, match each other...and the buttplate does not match either the stock or the rifle...a bit of a bummer, but I find it strange that things like the brass guard, bands, nosecap, and the screws do match the gun, possibly a depot refurb? No idea...

It is unfortunate the buttplate doesn't match either, but still LOVE the marking....such a cool, unusual unit in my book...

Bolt assembly, which is all matching, and matches the gun...

More bolt parts...

Anyone have more information on the Bayerische Eisenbahn Betreibskompanie unit marking, I did not find much via Google search...

Until the outbreak of WWI Bavaria only had one Eisenbahn battalion with three companies, established in 1873.
Unit stamp: B.E.#.#.
In WWI Bavaria established "Eisenbahn-Betriebs- und Feldbahn-Betriebskompagnien" 1-13, and 117-119. I'll try to find out more, but do not expect much.

Very good you did these, it clarified a few things and I was able to adjust the research thread recording, - damn good to know the stock-BP are m/m, though I agree it is unfortunate from a collectors perspective.

I could find little regarding the unit in my books, Wolfgang is undoubtedly your best bet for more information.