Info Requested for Zeiss Jani Zielvier Scope

I have hit a wall trying to research this scope. If my info is correct and the scope is legit it is 1920s Production. I posted on the Imperial Thread the 1909 Argentine Sniper this Scope came attached to but have not received any replies.

My questions are whether the bases, mount, and Scope are legit and if so what is the value of the Scope and Mounts. Reason I am asking is to finalize the price on the 1909 Argentine Sniper with the seller. I know the scope is not the correct scope for the rifle but I read it is exactly the same as the Zeiss Jani Nedinsco which is the correct scope. Ideally I would like to buy the correct scope and sell or trade this scope towards the purchase. I know the Nedinsco Scopes are very Expensive ($1,500-1,800).

I tried to take pics of everything I could think of. There are not many markings. I didn't see anything on the bases. They are screwed tightly to the receiver. I did not see any signs of welding or glue, but I didn't remove them so they could be glued (how they were attached in Argentina from what I read).

The mount only the rear is numbered 931 which is close to the rifle but not the same.

The Scope is numbered 6590. It is marked from front to back near the rear on top Zielvier over No 6590 over Carl Zeiss over Jena Logo. On the left side below the knob it is marked Gewehrfabricken over Emil Kerner & Sohn over Suhl i. Thrg. I see no other markings. I found EmIl Kerner & Sohn (Son) was a maker of drilling rifles. I assume the scope if real was made for them or marked by them?

This rifle has been converted to an Argentine sniper rifle and was not factory made. This is clearly visible by the simple fact that despite they are original Argentine ("holes" in the front base from the inner of the base to the screw cutouts) the stopping pin is not correctly facing towards the front but wrongly towards the rear.

It is most probably that someone bought a set of the sometimes available Argentine LT mounts and had a "sniper" assembled himself.

Edit: If I'm not mistaken the front base is too much towards the front (should sit in the middle of the receiver) and the scope is a Zielvier which was civilian mounted by the company engraved on the side of the elevation turret. The owner most probably bought a Zielvier which was for sale and just had it placed in the set of rings he had.

Absolut said:

This rifle has been converted to an Argentine sniper rifle and was not factory made. This is clearly visible by the simple fact that despite they are original Argentine ("holes" in the front base from the inner of the base to the screw cutouts) the stopping pin is not correctly facing towards the front but wrongly towards the rear.

It is most probably that someone bought a set of the sometimes available Argentine LT mounts and had a "sniper" assembled himself.

Edit: If I'm not mistaken the front base is too much towards the front (should sit in the middle of the receiver) and the scope is a Zielvier which was civilian mounted by the company engraved on the side of the elevation turret. The owner most probably bought a Zielvier which was for sale and just had it placed in the set of rings he had.

Click to expand...

The front base is exactly where it is in Webster's book and on a picture I found on Milsurps.

http://imageevent.com/badgerdog/arg...1wqyw0v1.goose_s?n=0&z=9&c=4&x=1&m=24&w=0&p=0

I think I figured out the stopping pin from the picture on Milsurps. You mean the little hole in the front mount should be facing forward on the left like pic #25 and in the link above and not facing rear right like it is in my picture.

Didn't a lot of the rifles come in from SAMCO missing bases, mounts, and Scopes and were then put back together by SAMCO or Century? Could this be how the front mount was flipped?. Or someone had a bad day at the Arsenal? The import Mark on this rifle is JLD ENT FARM, CT. I see they imported many South American Firearms.

So do I understand correctly that the bases and mounts are original? I knew the scope was not, but I still don't know what the value of the current scope is



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The bases are original. The simple fact that a rifle comes with a set of original bases which were soldered the wrong way round and with a wrong scope simply makes it much more certain that someone bought a set of mounts (they were sold as sets) and made up a sniper himself than someone restored an "original" sniper.

And yes, the stopping pin is something in the cutout in the front base. In German we would say "Anschlagschrauben", and for what I know in the US it is referred as the stopping pin. It's the same as with German LT mounts, they have this screw too. It's missing with most fakes since it's hard to reproduce and many are not aware of it.

Edit: hard to make out from the pictures, but the bolt handle does not look rounded as it should on originally bent handles but rather bent with a dogleg.

I think you are correct. I would think they would have bent the handle without causing a crease. I hope I am wrong. If not this one is going in the lesson learned category. If it is a built sniper what is the value of the parts?

Stock is refinished and number removed but looks like it was originally matching. Bolt, Receiver, barrel, and floor plate match. Rear Sight, Cleaning Rod, and Muzzle Cover do not.

I guess the biggest question is what is the value of the Base, Mounts, and Scope?





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What is with the Argentine Snipers in Brazilian Stocks? There is one on gunbroker now and there was one on this site. The one here was re-stamped the one on gunbroker looks to be an Original Brazilian stock number that matches. In the thread below there was also an Argentine Sniper also with its serial number removed from the stock. Seems many of the Snipers had the serial removed from the stock. Was this done in Argentina or here?

http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread...ut-still-relevant-(1909-Argentine-low-turret)


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The mount sometimes is on eBay complete. They sell for $300-400. Add the value of a Zielvier scope, an Argentine M1909 rifle and the gunsmith work for mounting it to that value, then you have the total.