Third Party Press

Quick question on overseas sales

yellowkid

Senior Member
Apologies if this is not the proper place but I'm in need of quick advice on something I have up for sale on eBay - a Mauser stock. Here's the question - I limited the sale to US only but a gentleman from the UK placed a bid. I'm wary of shipping any gun parts out of the country and not sure of the rules but don't need that kind of trouble. Any one with experience with this? Ok to ship? Thx as always.
 
Military gun parts are implements of war. You must have an import - export license from the US State Department to send any out of the country. Newly made stocks were not made for military use, so they're OK for export.
 
For not being from the US this does not frighten me off from bidding on some items which are stated to be shipped only within the US - I have some fellow friends (also members here) who kindly act as temporary home of these items until they are being exported. So I'd possibly suggest you to ask this person on how he planned to get the item to the UK if you would not ship it.
 
For not being from the US this does not frighten me off from bidding on some items which are stated to be shipped only within the US - I have some fellow friends (also members here) who kindly act as temporary home of these items until they are being exported. So I'd possibly suggest you to ask this person on how he planned to get the item to the UK if you would not ship it.

My thinking regarding this is similar to Absolut's comments. Tell him that your auction specifically stated no international sales but offer to ship it to a third person if he has someone in the US who would send it to him. The downside would be if he pays you and you ship to his agent then he appeals to eBay for a refund stating he never received it, etc. Perhaps easier to just cancel the sale.
 
Several years I had a stock confiscated by customs IIRC.... Just a big PITA.... and seller and buyer were grumpy. Seems the item was destined for England too...
 
I ship items overseas all the time , such as Scopes , Mounts and Stock . I have never had an issue . When sending something like a Stock You should classify it as Antique and always declare the Value Under $100 USD . If an item is under a $100 you do not need an export permit . I always like to us Fed Ex for these overseas shipping it a bit more but again never had issue .
 
I ship items overseas all the time , such as Scopes , Mounts and Stock . I have never had an issue . When sending something like a Stock You should classify it as Antique and always declare the Value Under $100 USD . If an item is under a $100 you do not need an export permit . I always like to us Fed Ex for these overseas shipping it a bit more but again never had issue .

The issue is generally with the interpretation of US Customs versus the destination. For example, almost anything less than $100 or anything that is not a vital component part (bolt/receiver) I can legally import into Canada with no permit. I may need to pay GST, Brokerage (if UPS/FedEx) and customs fees but that is it. I have frequently imported stocks, scopes, accessories and I have only had one problem and that was with a scope - which was actually stopped on the US side of customs (LSR dow scope). Took six months, but it eventually worked out.

Even if it is a vital component part (bolt/receiver) you can still import/export through the proper brokers. For example, I once bought a Boys 55 Anti Tank gun barrel on Ebay (Dangerous Device) and had it shipped to a third party (exporter). Once I had the export permit it was no problem to ship - and luckily the Boys 55 Anti Tank gun is considered non-restricted my side of the border. Again it was US restrictions that caused a limitation.

You can also change your settings to block international buyers. I have won multiple auctions and have parts sent to a third parties, I won and had many parts/accessories/optics sent to me, however I have also won a few auctions where the seller simply cancels the order. I am left disappointed but then again - its their prerogative.

I wouldn't bee to scared off from completing the transaction or sending to a third party. Just make sure they have that third party address as the destination when they pay with Pay Pal, that you have a message with their instructions and that you have a tracking number to prove delivery.
 
ITAR violation

"...Tell him that your auction specifically stated no international sales but offer to ship it to a third person if he has someone in the US who would send it to him."
This activity may be considered conspiracy to violate ITAR by being a party to doing this!

AND there is an email record of INTENT to violate ITAR by posting or emailing about using a third party who would try to avoid export regs.
 
I think if you dig further into ITAR you will find exceptions. I have been specifically told by both my former-US exporter (FFL), US Customs directly, and the Australian interpretation of the same that stocks are EXEMPTED (so long as not MG related etc).

Now, that depends WHERE in the US you live. I once bought a Sako stock from Pat Burns in NJ (or wherever in the non-confederated US he is). Stock did the run around, made it to NY sorting, sent back to Newark by memory, then back to him. All I ended up with was a refund for the stock, as USPS would NOT refund his/my postage.

Declare as antique - technically, it IS an 1898 stock :). Make your own call.

I find it befuddling how much postage has gone through the roof in the US too. I can get a complete K98 stock set from Tommy in Holland for $27 US postage. An RG34 kit sent from the US costs $34 US postage...I'd hate to try posting a stock now!
 
Thanks all for the input. Honestly it's just not worth the chance for trouble. Just trying to move along some stuff I'm never gonna use. Bidder understood and no hard feelings.
 
Under $100 you are always safe. Canada it is $500. S/42 you are correct there are exemptions for stocks. Many laws have exemptions. When you bother to look into them you tend to find them.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 
Under $100 you are always safe. Canada it is $500. S/42 you are correct there are exemptions for stocks. Many laws have exemptions. When you bother to look into them you tend to find them.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

++ Correct

I have to laugh...considering that it is "The Land of the Free" I find there are a few too many people wearing Aluminum Hats fearing the wrath of Big Brother. I work part time for a Firearms store in Canada that has Import and Export permits and lots of times companies south of the border won't even touch us - despite us wanting to go through all the legal means - and we are even willing to do all the work on both ends ourselves. :facepalm: Seriously...sometimes they won't even send a sling.
 
++ Correct

I have to laugh...considering that it is "The Land of the Free" I find there are a few too many people wearing Aluminum Hats fearing the wrath of Big Brother. I work part time for a Firearms store in Canada that has Import and Export permits and lots of times companies south of the border won't even touch us - despite us wanting to go through all the legal means - and we are even willing to do all the work on both ends ourselves. :facepalm: Seriously...sometimes they won't even send a sling.

I don’t get that attitude. It’s just plain stupid. If you ever need anything Finnish PM me I have no problem shipping to Canada or anywhere else; stocks included.


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I think I'll be talking Capt :) Now to find what I need ...

It always puzzled me how so many from the US are unable or not wanting to fill out a CN22 Customs declaration (a 10 second job), let alone how many on eBay ALWAYS state "US sales only". Like they are seriously scared of Big Brother (in the land of the free and the brave...the revolutionaries...rise up over the Oppressors...)
 
I think I'll be talking Capt :) Now to find what I need ...

It always puzzled me how so many from the US are unable or not wanting to fill out a CN22 Customs declaration (a 10 second job), let alone how many on eBay ALWAYS state "US sales only". Like they are seriously scared of Big Brother (in the land of the free and the brave...the revolutionaries...rise up over the Oppressors...)
Exactly. The ones who talk the most about how Pro 2A they are, are usually the first ones to restrict their own rights and rights of others out of unreasonable fear and a refusal to learn the law.

If you need something just let me know. I like making new international trading partners.

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Criminal Charges over the years for import/exports vs. "tin foil hats"

I was in charge of export compliance for our company for a number of years.
We had a whole department whose job it was to keep the company out of legal jeopardy.
There are certification courses that were mandated for the job of export/import compliance officer.
www.iiei.org

1. I personally have had run-ins with Customs over the years over gun parts. Fortunately all was resolved after a great deal of legal hassle. It is all up to the individual customs officer to decide whether to make issue on an individual import/export.

2. Do an internet search for the govt website (US Dept of State ITAR? Customs? US Dept. of Commerce?) that lists all the charges filed over the years for violations. Read some of the synopsis of what people have been charged for over the years! A real eye opener.
I am retired now, so I don't have immediate access to my old company computer where all such website were listed, so you have to do the search.

3. Dept of State, US Customs, US Dept. of Commerce, and BATF every year has booths set up at the SHOT Show (and other industry shows) for dealers to ask about these particular questions and more. Also, the listed agencies have yearly "industry days" where the public is invited to come in and ask questions.

4. Just because a person (me) is a life member of the NRA and a Libertarian, doesn't mean they want to be a "test case" or try their luck with import/export of gun parts.

5. Your best bet... GET A WRITTEN RESPONSE from EACH of the above listed agencies concerning import/export of specific gun parts. JUST BECAUSE ONE AGENCY SAYS "OK, No Problem" DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE NOT IN VIOLATION WITH ANOTHER AGENCY whose areas of responsibility overlap.

I personally have had many hours trying to clear up ITAR issues when US Dept of Commerce and Dept. of State had both given me written "APPROVAL" !! And this for US Army / US State Department approved export! ITAR still demanded their approval and compliance documentation.

Do some people import / export every single day gun parts with out hassle? Sure.
Do some people import / export every single day gun parts, and get a knock at the door? YES.

How lucky do you feel today?
 
I'm with Rich. Having had 2 agents from HS visit me for mailing a 98k stock to Canada and stating the actual value on the forms, I'm done mailing anything gun related overseas. FYI, that stock I shipped was perfectly legal in both countries, but ITAR regulations prohibit the export of gun parts over a certain value regardless of legality in both places. It's not "patriotic Americans giving in" as you state, its law abiding citizens who don't want that knock on the door...again. I've gotten emails from others asking me about my experience with them, some sounded like they were in much deeper trouble.

So go ahead and talk tough, wait till they come knocking on your door...
 
I'm with Rich. Having had 2 agents from HS visit me for mailing a 98k stock to Canada and stating the actual value on the forms, I'm done mailing anything gun related overseas. FYI, that stock I shipped was perfectly legal in both countries, but ITAR regulations prohibit the export of gun parts over a certain value regardless of legality in both places. It's not "patriotic Americans giving in" as you state, its law abiding citizens who don't want that knock on the door...again. I've gotten emails from others asking me about my experience with them, some sounded like they were in much deeper trouble.

So go ahead and talk tough, wait till they come knocking on your door...
I follow the rules and stay up to date on them. Canada was $100. It is now $500. As long as I am compliant with the law I am not worried.
 

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