Show Reports

Went to combined show events this weekend in Phoenix, Az. (Crossroads/SAR West). Weather was very nice so public turnout was excellent, although there were slightly fewer vendors compared to last year. A friend got a early 3rd Reich Gew98 rework which was KM accepted (even the sling stirrup), in decent condition with "duffle-cut" stock (under the rear band). I also sent him out to snag a KM accepted P.08 holster as well. I got a few things unrelated to our interests here on this Forum (like a Chinese SKS, etc.). However, I did acquire a nice, matched S84/98 T3 with frog "41 crs" 1863 L. This is one of those pieces in the "L"-bloc where a large font capital "L" letter is used for the suffix. I have another like it which is 519 L. Frog is a GOLINGE | 1938 (or 1939) w/cross-strap. Rig looks to have been together forever and got it for $150. Saw a nice "asw 44" , matched rivet grip, but blade had been lightly sharpened. Don't know what the seller wanted, as at the time he was not sure. Saw a S172 | 36 matching in about 75%+ condition, for $195. but passed as I could not recall if it was better than my own example or not. Pretty confident it did not sell and if need be, can still acquire it. Most of the other S84/98 T3s I saw were typical mismatches, or in mediocre condition, which is pretty much the norm in these parts.

41 crs

Is your 41 crs L block a match? I assume it is, but you did not specifically state so.

I have a 'thing' for 41 crs. I think I have 7 examples, and the maker mark or serials are different on all 7. I do not have an L block. It is on my wish list. I also need a 5 digit s block with maker mark on bayonet and scabbard. I have seen one posted on eBay from time to time, but it is always priced way high and the seller will not budge.

If you get a chance, please post pix of your L block.

Unutt said:

Is your 41 crs L block a match? I assume it is, but you did not specifically state so. I have a 'thing' for 41 crs. I think I have 7 examples, and the maker mark or serials are different on all 7. I do not have an L block. It is on my wish list. I also need a 5 digit s block with maker mark on bayonet and scabbard. If you get a chance, please post pix of your L block.

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Thanks for bringing the omission to my attention. Bayo is matched and I subsequently amended the initial post. Was amused by your comment about Weyersberg 1941 production. I and Slash both share your obsession! Pics below:

pwcosol said:

Thanks for bringing the omission to my attention. Bayo is matched and I subsequently amended the initial post. Was amused by your comment about Weyersberg 1941 production. I and Slash both share your obsession! Pics below:

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Nice looking example. No mistaking the "L"!

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L block

Very nice. I will be watching for one, for sure.

Probably bayonets were delivered for unknown contract unserialed and later serialed by hand to letter L.On scabbard it looks like striked or there was something under?b.r.Andy

Yes, obsessed with these 41crs anomalies would be an accurate assessment! Great piece. Every L block I have examined appear to have hand stamped serial numbering. And as Andrej noted, looks to have a vertical line or marking beneath the scabbard markings?

There is a small line which runs through the scabbard serial#, but it looks like a scratch in the metal and under the finish. Serial numbers are stamped over it. I don't know if all "L"-bloc serials use the large capital letter or not. The "K"-bloc bayos also use a larger letter stamp as well, but don't think it is quite as large as the "L". As for being a contract, my guess is , for whatever reason, they ended up using the large size letter stamp. Since all the digits & alpha character suffix are individually hand stamped, this may have something to do with this. If Weyersberg used a indexing machine stamp for this previously and afterwards, perhaps it broke down (or got blown up in a air raid?), so they reverted to hand stamping with die sets in the interim.

I would to mean a 41 crs is special period stamps, and the L suffix in one row with digits are certainly not typical for PWCo, never used before and not later? so i assume this is a strange delivery serialed by customer. Same strange are the ranges exceeding 10000 pcs, e, S, Tr ranges. the fonts are different as typical 41crs pre and 42 post.b.r.Andy

AndyB said:

I would to mean a 41 crs is special period stamps, and the L suffix in one row with digits are certainly not typical for PWCo, never used before and not later? so i assume this is a strange delivery serialed by customer. Same strange are the ranges exceeding 10000 pcs, e, S, Tr ranges. the fonts are different as typical 41crs pre and 42 post.b.r.Andy

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Very interesting, Andy. If "Large -L" is contract, have we seen any with normal size "l" ?

pwcosol said:

Very interesting, Andy. If "Large -L" is contract, have we seen any with normal size "l" ?

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There is no "standard l block" series for Paul Weyersberg in 1941. Here is what I have been able to verify with several hundred serial numbers in the spreadsheets. You may remember that I was working on this area of research for an article before the old BCN folded.

1941 Weyersberg Production:

- no letter through d block (normal serializing)

- e block which runs into five digits

- k block (some are letter k some K)

- L block (all examples recorded are upper case on one line)

- S block which runs into five digits

- Tr block which runs into five digits

If anyone has 41crs pieces with letter blocks other than the above I would be very interested in the details. Many thanks in advance .....

K block

Nothing different than your explanation, but my k block is upper case on the scabbard, and lower case on the bayonet.

As Lance correctly added the full range of 41crs production, is clear by PWCo something happened in 1941. I personally believe some of the ranges were serialed by contractor. Some bayonets or scabbards in these ranges exist with no 41crs stamping,which is typical for non Wehrmacht contract.
What is important to say e letter was normally used under serial, and no letter in ranges f-j were reported to this time, same as m-q ranges are not reported.
The Tr range goes serialing to 17xxx.
The upper case and lower case letters style on various parts are not specific for this maker, visible on Eickhorn,Coppel production too and others.
b.r.Andy

I had not expected to hear there appear to be sizeable gaps in the "41 crs" production sequence with no examples reported. This just adds more mystery as to what happened. I looked at a "crs" | 40 I have (8785 f). Numbers are lined up straight and not looking like they were hand-stamped. However, the alpha suffix (stamped below the serial) is a very small "F" on the bayonet and a same sized, but lower case "f" on the scabbard. I think, other than the "Tr" contract run, the five-digit examples in the "e" & "s" blocs (others?), are most intriguing. This makes no sense at all, and defies the standard numbering procedure all manufacturers followed...the only other exception being Ferlach & their unique numbering scheme.

Thats interesting the oditys of 41crs, when You look at their PWCo production only 1941 production is so strange, other years prior 1941 and post are normal standart serialising, anyway they are too well known PWCo Behoerden contracts for Postschutz and Police that are out of 10000 range. b.r.Andy