Third Party Press

high dollar dou 44?

I'm not believing it. That seller routinely sells items for 3x value - maybe he has a pool of buyers that buy his hyperbole, but that rifle is nothing special.
 
I bid on it when it was at 800 with a max at 1300. When it went past that I broke out the popcorn for the last 30 min and watched it skyrocket.
 
Everything Richard sells is high. Usually due too shill bidders or people believing in the BS. Read his descriptions its the same thing with every item. The finest piece ever to be seen on the market most likely came out of the museum. The Luger was the same way it most likely came out of the museum because of the hang tag that was on it!
 
Everything Richard sells is high.

Yeah for sure. I don't know the man personally but I've been following his stuff for a while and like Mike said 3x is not uncommon. It's a handsome piece for sure and their quality is very good but it's not an uncommon piece either. Yes, they all came out of a museum and are 'impossible to upgrade'. Think that's just permanently in his ad?

It's just nice to take a sanity check once in a while.
 
That must have been one large collection. He's been using that line for a while now. Most of his stuff does look real nice.
 
That's silly and suspect to me, particularly when a far nicer bnz 43, all matching, will sit without a bid for half that.
 
No shill, I don't have any skin with this seller, however looking at this photo #24 in his spread I can see why buyers are sucked in. It looks gorgeous IMHO. The bolt cutout is crisp. It shows the 'router bounce' on some areas of the stock. The blue of the bolt collar and bolt proper look great against the extractor. Just from an enthusiasts perspective, am I wrong? Is this not an excellent example? Again, $3775? Probably not. Actually I was lost around $2k.

photo #24.JPG
 
No, it is absolutely a great example, to me it simply looks like novice collectors with deep pockets getting buck fever and the trigger is connected directly to their account balance. I know the feeling exactly, except my trigger balance certainly isn’t in line with theirs haha. I used to sweat it out and tell my wife that rifles like this just don’t come around and I’ve gotta have it. I’ve been collecting K98’s since I was 12 and I can tell you they DO come around. 90% plus rifles are not an everyday occurrence but they aren’t rare (starting to loathe that word in connection with anything K98) there are SOME rather uncommon K98’s and a Dou44 is about as far from that list as one could get, a rifle in this condition (irrespective of code) a little closer to that statement, but not much. Also you can look at the trends of 90% plus rifles and a large majority are dou44, dot 1944, and byf44 so within a theoretical condition only based value sub section that makes this one down right common from that basis. For the price realized one should expect that this were a far less encountered code in similar condition. It’s also semi surprising given it’s a Czech rifle and they also appear to be of less interest to a lot of collectors for some reason and often command lower prices. Truly German companies Mauser etc often command higher values as there are many collectors who will ONLY collect Oberndorf and the like. My nicest K98 I’ve ever owned is a byf44 yet I wouldn’t blink more than about twice to trade it off for something a little less common or more in line with my maker interests. Why?? Because I can’t tell you how many near mint byfs pop up ever year. When an exceptional 1944 rifle pops up for example people make offers, when an exceptional K or G date pops up people refinance their houses haha, why? Because they are experienced collectors and they know what a truly uncommon rifle is and the value it will command in this day and age. Is this one a stupid/wreckless purchase? Absolutely. But it is also likely made by an individual to which 3,4,5k means next to nothing, that might be the price of an oil change in their car by the time the belly pan is pulled off their exotic. They get to ruin the market for the rest of us by giving more and more people false impressions of value.
 
I've got one nicer and earlier and if I put it at auction it would sell for $1500. Why is that? There are but two explanations. One is that he has a cadre of loyal customers with more money than sense who eagerly await his auctions. I guess that would be supported by these auctions regularly bidding up well beyond reasonable. But that would support the other explanation too.
 
No shill, I don't have any skin with this seller, however looking at this photo #24 in his spread I can see why buyers are sucked in. It looks gorgeous IMHO. The bolt cutout is crisp. It shows the 'router bounce' on some areas of the stock. The blue of the bolt collar and bolt proper look great against the extractor. Just from an enthusiasts perspective, am I wrong? Is this not an excellent example? Again, $3775? Probably not. Actually I was lost around $2k.


Even @ 2k its overpriced for a dou44. But, I see this on a lot of gun forums weather its 1911's or k98's. The guy baulking at prices are the guys who started early and bought cheap and have the items already. You would think they would be happy seeing prices soar ?

This seller is a salesman. Read his listings and he really pours it on. I guess it works.

There are still a lot of sleeper sales out there if you search.
 
Yes he is. I have seen Richard many times at the shows purchase guns like this for over $2,000. And then lists them on gunbroker with a fancy description. Its the same exact listing: Museum grade, just came out of a large 40 year collection, one of the best ever seen, the best I have ever seen, you'll never see another one again, etc. I remember last year he sold a black widow Luger rig with capture papers for almost $10,000. After he already bought the same rig on gunbroker for over $4,000.
 
Even @ 2k its overpriced for a dou44. But, I see this on a lot of gun forums weather its 1911's or k98's. The guy baulking at prices are the guys who started early and bought cheap and have the items already. You would think they would be happy seeing prices soar ?

This seller is a salesman. Read his listings and he really pours it on. I guess it works.

There are still a lot of sleeper sales out there if you search.

I "started early and bought cheap" but I also have paid higher reasonable retail than anyone here for items I wanted. I'm balking at this price because I've got a large amount of practical experience in the hobby, prices, etc. This price is absurd and is indicative of extreme tag team ignorance or shilling IMHO. A better description for those calling bullshite on this is "people who know what they are talking about after being in the hobby for 30+ years who can spot when something is amiss." To claim that shilling is not regularly taking place on Gunbonker is insane.

Prices are what they are. Mauser99, you engage in brokering and dealing and probably are more concerned with day to day selling prices. I do not sell much and certainly no longer broker or deal. At some point I'm going to die and my stuff will be sold but at that point prices will be what they are generally, irrespective of auction silliness which may or many not be real. In the meantime, I'll continue to call bullshite on auction results like this because it is, and not indicative of the real market. I'll continue to pay high retail for what I want to, even though 20 years ago if you told me I was going to pay $1800 for a bnz 43 no one bid on I would laugh at such a crazy idea. That dou 44 is a $2k rifle. I'd even accept $2,500.
 
If the buyer of this rifle were to list it with a BIN or reserve at $3,500, how many here think that he would sell it any time soon? One wouldn't have to work very hard to find a similar example for under $2K. When a GunBroker dealer starts regularly getting 200% or more of retail for his items, I stop paying attention to that dealer's auctions. I agree with the previously made statements regarding the work of shills and dumb-assery in bidders.
 
I have no concerns and really don't care. I don't bring up pointless things like what something sells for as it really has little bearing on anything.
I have seen others try to do what JTD or others can do and fail. They know who they are.

I buy and sell stuff and sell stuff for friends with no outlets of their own . I'm not in business to make profit. I'm a collector first and anyone who knows me will tell you that.


I made a point saying it's typical of the "oh my gosh look what that sold for" type of response comes from the same type of person.

What people pay for stuff is relative to there gross income. 5 dollars to me is like 500 to someone else.

I can say I wouldn't pay over 2k for a dou44 because I wouldn't . Maybe a minty dou45 Km. That's me. Dot's and dou's are at the bottom of my list value wise. Some guys prefer them I don't.

I sell privately mostly and am happy to put a price on something and sell it. I don't trust no reserve auctions as I don't trust the mob mentality of the g.p. to put a value on an item.
 
I have no concerns and really don't care. I don't bring up pointless things like what something sells for as it really has little bearing on anything.
I have seen others try to do what JTD or others can do and fail. They know who they are.

I buy and sell stuff and sell stuff for friends with no outlets of their own . I'm not in business to make profit. I'm a collector first and anyone who knows me will tell you that.


I made a point saying it's typical of the "oh my gosh look what that sold for" type of response comes from the same type of person.

What people pay for stuff is relative to there gross income. 5 dollars to me is like 500 to someone else.

I can say I wouldn't pay over 2k for a dou44 because I wouldn't . Maybe a minty dou45 Km. That's me. Dot's and dou's are at the bottom of my list value wise. Some guys prefer them I don't.

I sell privately mostly and am happy to put a price on something and sell it. I don't trust no reserve auctions as I don't trust the mob mentality of the g.p. to put a value on an item.

"I made a point saying it's typical of the "oh my gosh look what that sold for" type of response comes from the same type of person."

I agree, if by "same type of person" you mean those with common sense and familiarity with the hobby.
 
I've got one 700 guns away in like condition - they not rare by any means and turn up regularly (I like dou's but they definitely get less love!). I would have said 1600-1800. By here's my question and this may sound ignorant or naive or both: what's to be gained by having shills drive up the price on such a visible auction? By shills are we talking friends who bid with no intention of buying -- what happens if they get stuck as high bidder? We'd all know if it simply gets relisted. And can shills really push someone to pay twice what it's worth? How would a shill know how far to drive a legit bidder? I'm asking honestly and again perhaps naively but I don't get it! If you know the market at all you have a cap. And wait for the next one. What am I missing? Is it really just auction fever?
 

Military Rifle Journal
Back
Top