I posted a pic of my 1919 J.P. Sauer on a Facebook page and someone requested I drop it on here for discussion. I was informed that this may be the first 1919 J.P. Sauer to surface.
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If there's interest I'll take more detailed pics for research purposes.
Cheers
Yes, it is true that this is the only "known" JPS/19, though there are CGH/19 and VCS/19's known. Of course it is also possible others have seen a JPS/19 and have not made note of it, but as far as I know this is the first encountered.
This rifle should not have a suffix, typically these 1919 dated rifles (Oberspree also made them) were made in very small numbers, none close to a roll over. Regarding these Suhl consortium 1919's, none seem to be anywhere near original matching, so very little is known about them. Most are little more than barreled receivers.
Try and take pictures of the top-right-left receiver and barrel markings. These things are most likely to define what these are. - Obviously by 1919 Germany was a republic and utter chaos and revolution was in the air, so it would be interesting to see something original to this period.
..Obviously by 1919 Germany was a republic and utter chaos and revolution was in the air, so it would be interesting to see something original to this period.
I'll try and take pics in outdoors daylight this weekend, better light obviously. Do you need barrel codes, proofs, etc. from the underside?
Wow. I've never seen a 1919. I wonder the chances this was finished post armistice? I can see a likely scenario where very limited production continued (amid the chaos?) since no treaty would be ratified for quite some time. Love to see more photos.
The barrel markings would be extremely important if original to manufacture. Or if it was done prior to 1924-26. Less importance if 1927-1933, and no importance if post 1933. The rearsight would also be very important, if matching.
That is the thing, only parts that have the receiver serial really matter, - to a study of the rifle and placing it in context of a period or event. That it is property marked means it was delivered to the German Army prior to Spa (July 1920), that is an important factor for research. Whatever else can be said, this rifle was delivered to the German military sometime between 1919-1920, the other markings could tell us more, though I hope it is more original to 1919 than 1939...
Try to get the barrel markings, underneath is where most marking will be placed, though after 1925 or so, the FP will tend to move above the stock, a re-barrel might also show above the stock. Also the rear sight is important, it will almost certainly be upgraded, any rifle in government hands would have eventually gone through a depot, but let us hope it was a lazy day and the rifle passed through unmolested. Of course the stock is of paramount importance "IF" matching. A stock will tell more about a German rifle than any other component and that is generally true 1898-1945.
Wow!! That is awesome, especially for a JPS nut. If you ever get tired of it, I’ve got an S28 Kar98b with your name on it! congrats on a great pickup, even if you didn’t know it at the time. Sometimes those are the best finds, the ones that were there the whole time.
No pics yet (after dark outside and cold), but I did take it out of the stock. The bolt is not matching and the stock is a replacement with 98M features. However, the bands match (rear is 98M, front is Imperial w/stacking hook), trigger guard, floorplate, buttplate and the receiver screws all match as well. The updated rear sight matches and the trigger matches but has a crisp Weimar Eagle 6 on it (early 30's rebuild?). Serial has no suffix, 7601.
So mismatched bolt and wood, the rest is matching and clearly it was rebuilt during the Weimar period (no S/42 or any later indicators).
Interesting would love too see the rest of your rifle when you get it posted it up when you get time. Any depot number stamps on the buttplate by chance?
How the RS is marked will tell when it was adapted, typically these are Simson if early and MO if later, - though Mauser did supply parts early, they do not seem to show up often (except the sleeves). This is probably due to changes after 1929, where I believe additional upgrades occurred (1922 introduced the original effort to upgrade the rifles to sS patrone, but i think that most rifles today do not have these early upgrades, rather they were done again around and after 1929.. of the original work, I think the Mauser made sleeve are the only original parts, - though it is difficult to prove something like this if the earlier work was so thoroughly upgraded, what is certain is that I have never seen one of these 1922 era dual compliance sights and all i have seen seem to date to the late 1920's).
The serial number is pretty high for one of these, that is good to see, it probably means more than I expected were made. Odds are strong these were originally much like an JPS/VCS/CGH of 1918 vintage, the original barrel JPS made, - almost all were. If re-barreled early it will probably sport a Simson barrel, later in the 1930's it could be any of a half dozen makers, ERMA and JPS are most common G98 length ordnance spares.
Yes, it is true that this is the only "known" JPS/19, though there are CGH/19 and VCS/19's known. Of course it is also possible others have seen a JPS/19 and have not made note of it, but as far as I know this is the first encountered.
This rifle should not have a suffix, typically these 1919 dated rifles (Oberspree also made them) were made in very small numbers, none close to a roll over. Regarding these Suhl consortium 1919's, none seem to be anywhere near original matching, so very little is known about them. Most are little more than barreled receivers.
Try and take pictures of the top-right-left receiver and barrel markings. These things are most likely to define what these are. - Obviously by 1919 Germany was a republic and utter chaos and revolution was in the air, so it would be interesting to see something original to this period.