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Thread: 1919 J.P. Sauer

  1. #11
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    No pics yet (after dark outside and cold), but I did take it out of the stock. The bolt is not matching and the stock is a replacement with 98M features. However, the bands match (rear is 98M, front is Imperial w/stacking hook), trigger guard, floorplate, buttplate and the receiver screws all match as well. The updated rear sight matches and the trigger matches but has a crisp Weimar Eagle 6 on it (early 30's rebuild?). Serial has no suffix, 7601.
    So mismatched bolt and wood, the rest is matching and clearly it was rebuilt during the Weimar period (no S/42 or any later indicators).

  2. #12
    ax - hole Warrior1354's Avatar
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    Interesting would love too see the rest of your rifle when you get it posted it up when you get time. Any depot number stamps on the buttplate by chance?
    "Don't use your musket if you can kill 'em with your hatchet"

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  3. #13
    Senior Member flynaked's Avatar
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    Wow!! That is awesome, especially for a JPS nut. If you ever get tired of it, I’ve got an S28 Kar98b with your name on it! congrats on a great pickup, even if you didn’t know it at the time. Sometimes those are the best finds, the ones that were there the whole time.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by flynaked View Post
    Wow!! That is awesome, especially for a JPS nut. If you ever get tired of it, Iíve got an S28 Kar98b with your name on it! congrats on a great pickup, even if you didnít know it at the time. Sometimes those are the best finds, the ones that were there the whole time.
    I had a 1919 previously, but it is butchered (Israeli rebarrel in .308, 7.62 carved into the receiver). I saw this JPS and bought it on sight, you run across so few 1919's that I had no way of knowing it was unique.

  5. #15
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    How the RS is marked will tell when it was adapted, typically these are Simson if early and MO if later, - though Mauser did supply parts early, they do not seem to show up often (except the sleeves). This is probably due to changes after 1929, where I believe additional upgrades occurred (1922 introduced the original effort to upgrade the rifles to sS patrone, but i think that most rifles today do not have these early upgrades, rather they were done again around and after 1929.. of the original work, I think the Mauser made sleeve are the only original parts, - though it is difficult to prove something like this if the earlier work was so thoroughly upgraded, what is certain is that I have never seen one of these 1922 era dual compliance sights and all i have seen seem to date to the late 1920's).

    The serial number is pretty high for one of these, that is good to see, it probably means more than I expected were made. Odds are strong these were originally much like an JPS/VCS/CGH of 1918 vintage, the original barrel JPS made, - almost all were. If re-barreled early it will probably sport a Simson barrel, later in the 1930's it could be any of a half dozen makers, ERMA and JPS are most common G98 length ordnance spares.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nulle100 View Post
    No pics yet (after dark outside and cold), but I did take it out of the stock. The bolt is not matching and the stock is a replacement with 98M features. However, the bands match (rear is 98M, front is Imperial w/stacking hook), trigger guard, floorplate, buttplate and the receiver screws all match as well. The updated rear sight matches and the trigger matches but has a crisp Weimar Eagle 6 on it (early 30's rebuild?). Serial has no suffix, 7601.
    So mismatched bolt and wood, the rest is matching and clearly it was rebuilt during the Weimar period (no S/42 or any later indicators).

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior1354 View Post
    Interesting would love too see the rest of your rifle when you get it posted it up when you get time. Any depot number stamps on the buttplate by chance?
    The buttplate has a large E about twice the size of the serial number font and there is also a *** above the serial, same size as the serial font (look like 8 pointed asterisks). There is also a faint imperial proof.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loewe View Post
    How the RS is marked will tell when it was adapted, typically these are Simson if early and MO if later, - though Mauser did supply parts early, they do not seem to show up often (except the sleeves). This is probably due to changes after 1929, where I believe additional upgrades occurred (1922 introduced the original effort to upgrade the rifles to sS patrone, but i think that most rifles today do not have these early upgrades, rather they were done again around and after 1929.. of the original work, I think the Mauser made sleeve are the only original parts, - though it is difficult to prove something like this if the earlier work was so thoroughly upgraded, what is certain is that I have never seen one of these 1922 era dual compliance sights and all i have seen seem to date to the late 1920's).

    The serial number is pretty high for one of these, that is good to see, it probably means more than I expected were made. Odds are strong these were originally much like an JPS/VCS/CGH of 1918 vintage, the original barrel JPS made, - almost all were. If re-barreled early it will probably sport a Simson barrel, later in the 1930's it could be any of a half dozen makers, ERMA and JPS are most common G98 length ordnance spares.
    The RS is definitively a Simson, only a single Eagle 6, very small and one digit in the serial is overstamped on it slightly which made it hard to spot.
    I just saw on the stock an early Weimar Eagle on the right side of the butt below the takedown and three imperial marks, there is a small font H as well.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loewe View Post
    Yes, it is true that this is the only "known" JPS/19, though there are CGH/19 and VCS/19's known. Of course it is also possible others have seen a JPS/19 and have not made note of it, but as far as I know this is the first encountered.

    This rifle should not have a suffix, typically these 1919 dated rifles (Oberspree also made them) were made in very small numbers, none close to a roll over. Regarding these Suhl consortium 1919's, none seem to be anywhere near original matching, so very little is known about them. Most are little more than barreled receivers.

    Try and take pictures of the top-right-left receiver and barrel markings. These things are most likely to define what these are. - Obviously by 1919 Germany was a republic and utter chaos and revolution was in the air, so it would be interesting to see something original to this period.
    A year slides by..... Anyway, I have the rifle and a few others out, tried to take a few pics with my Iphone (only camera I have).

    1919 pic 1.jpg
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  10. #20
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    A BŲhler blank is unusual, not sure that matters much though. Have you a picture of the RR (right receiver??) Seems like it had two acceptance stamps, is this true?

    Does it have a fireproof? The CGH/19 doesn't and the VCS is uncertain. There are no well described or photographed consortium 1919's, but what can be said is they last "9" seems applied later, probably over the "8" and so far the few known have the same style "9", a little off center. These are probably a few receivers that were leftover when the armistice was signed and were re-dated, yours at least may have gone through, being property marked seems to suggest this made it to the military before the Spa conference. Show the acceptance on the rear sight, it may offer clues to its early history/service. Yours have what others do not, evidence of actual use in 1919-1920, the others show nothing to suggest they were ever a rifle in 1919-1920, - though to be fair a couple low quality receiver shots give precious little to evaluate or speculate about.

    Your's having a proper JPS wartime barrel, FP and acceptance to boot, and a property stamp all bodes well for a wartime or armistice era rifle. A big plus compared to the others, which seem to only be receivers. I assume you only have the barreled receiver? Something complete would be quite a discovery, but something approaching the impossible, - finding armistice era rifles in original condition, non-EWB anyway, are next to impossible.... the ones that stayed in German service were heavily reworked, abused, often found their way to foreign countries. Those that were hidden ended up destroyed, scrapped, or if hidden to the modern era molested by idiotic German authorities to make them safe for the philistines and proletarians of modern Germany (as von Roon called the rabble in 1848)...

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