Third Party Press

1919 J.P. Sauer

Thanks for the info! Here's the best I can do with an Iphone.
1919 pic 5.jpg

1919 pic 6.jpg

I need to go out and get a real camera, had one long ago before smart phones but its obsolete and missing...

When I do get hooked up with better tech, I'd like to dig into these as well.

1924 pic 1.jpg

98b.jpg
 
I assume you only have the barreled receiver? Something complete would be quite a discovery, but something approaching the impossible, - finding armistice era rifles in original condition, non-EWB anyway, are next to impossible.... the ones that stayed in German service were heavily reworked, abused, often found their way to foreign countries. Those that were hidden ended up destroyed, scrapped, or if hidden to the modern era molested by idiotic German authorities to make them safe for the philistines and proletarians of modern Germany (as von Roon called the rabble in 1848)...

Its a complete rifle, mismatched bolt and force matched wood, the rest actually does match. Sight, bands (front has stacking hook, rear is 98M variety but both matching), buttplate, receiver screws and triggerguard/floorplate.
 
What is the rear sight sleeve acceptance? Too blurry to read, Mauser/DWM made them very early as did Simson.

I don't suppose the forced matched stock comes with an ordnance depot marking?

The 1924 with a serial that high is unexpected, very deep into 1925 serial ranges... worthy of its own thread when you get a camera that can do it justice. Looks like a re-barrel, I don't suppose you know the barrel code? The FP looks early, surprisingly early for a 1924 (a 1924 wouldn't have a FP next to the serial, not that style either), but I wonder how late... the BC would help date the barrel if you ever take it apart (RS of course is relevant, I am sure its been upgraded later)

Its a complete rifle, mismatched bolt and force matched wood, the rest actually does match. Sight, bands (front has stacking hook, rear is 98M variety but both matching), buttplate, receiver screws and triggerguard/floorplate.
 
Try pictures of the rear sight parts and barrel markings, I suspect the barrel might be a replacement as the FP looks different, plus the Imperial fashion of not placing a FP next to the serial on the barrel (this did not change "generally" until the mid-1920's). Though it is possible-probable these receivers were not assembled until after 1919. It lacks the last RR acceptance and the receiver FP isn't "Imperial", so it probably was just a receiver in 1919.

Things like barrels, RS, differences between FP's all can help lead to answers...
 
Well, the barrel is clearly original and the FP next to the serial on the barrel a later addition, - which is pretty cool! I assume the stock matches? You say force-matched, so I assume a later mating... probably when the barrel was re-proofed next to the barrel serial. Perhaps this rifle was made in 1919(before the Versailles Treaty was signed in June) and then reworked and upgraded later after 1924, - I liked the E/H on the stock, have you closely examined the stock for a depot marking? Typically at the wrist, but often on either side of the buttstock or lower buttstock. Earlier this varies widely, later it is more consistent at the wrist.

I would think something like this would carry a depot marking, the extra FP on the barrel, the E/H on the stock, this is not some small operation. The rearsight sleeve looks like it is early too, - pictures are too blurry to know the acceptance but some of the early RS sleeves seem to carry acceptance usually associated with Berlin areas. I am away from my database but from recollection e/14 & e/29, - though none with e/66 also of the same group.

Anyway, maybe try to do more pictures, although I am no camera genius, I have found backing up from the target helps with no microfeature available. Or alternatively, try and describe the features you are photographing. These rifles are a new subject in the sense that no other rifle of this type has been discovered original to 1919 or early in the 1920's. Most are barreled receivers at best... It is hard to place these rifles in context, as you would think they would have been prime targets for destruction after the war, just like the 1918 G98's which are rare because they were destroyed in large numbers. SO far the serials (and circumstances of 1919) suggest low production, so it isn't like they made an impact i the destruction totals.
 
I have a Nikon D3500, so I'm pretty sure the bad pics are from operator error. I'll seek advice from the oracle (YouTube) on how to get the lighting, lens setting etc.
I checked the stock number, had it confused with another rifle. Its mismatched, not force matched. All of the metal hardware is matched, buttplate, bands, trigger guard, screws, but not the bayo lug.
I picked this one up at a small show in Connecticut years ago now, so I have no history on it. It has no import stamp and is in better condition than the Gew 98s and 98b's I picked up from the Albanian horde in the early 90's.
I'll take more pics of any markings I can find when I get the camera figured out, thanks again for the info.
 
Well, the barrel is clearly original and the FP next to the serial on the barrel a later addition, - which is pretty cool! I assume the stock matches? You say force-matched, so I assume a later mating... probably when the barrel was re-proofed next to the barrel serial. Perhaps this rifle was made in 1919(before the Versailles Treaty was signed in June) and then reworked and upgraded later after 1924, - I liked the E/H on the stock, have you closely examined the stock for a depot marking? Typically at the wrist, but often on either side of the buttstock or lower buttstock. Earlier this varies widely, later it is more consistent at the wrist.

I would think something like this would carry a depot marking, the extra FP on the barrel, the E/H on the stock, this is not some small operation. The rearsight sleeve looks like it is early too, - pictures are too blurry to know the acceptance but some of the early RS sleeves seem to carry acceptance usually associated with Berlin areas. I am away from my database but from recollection e/14 & e/29, - though none with e/66 also of the same group.

Anyway, maybe try to do more pictures, although I am no camera genius, I have found backing up from the target helps with no microfeature available. Or alternatively, try and describe the features you are photographing. These rifles are a new subject in the sense that no other rifle of this type has been discovered original to 1919 or early in the 1920's. Most are barreled receivers at best... It is hard to place these rifles in context, as you would think they would have been prime targets for destruction after the war, just like the 1918 G98's which are rare because they were destroyed in large numbers. SO far the serials (and circumstances of 1919) suggest low production, so it isn't like they made an impact i the destruction totals.
Paul ; This reminds me of the 98k's I have encountered and owned that were depot built in 1940-41 that utilized new old stock gew98 receivers. All the examples I handled and owned were 1918 dated receivers devoid of period manufacture firing proofs , and devoid of most fraktur proofing. The pic of the 1919 receiver date almost looks like a ghost of a # 8 by that 9 , or the 9 maybe bounced when applied - does not look perfectly rolled on as you would expect to see. It may have been an in house reject pulled out and used in time of need ?.
 

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