84/98 crs 45

Lucky to find my third crs 45 in Denmark.
no scabbard but still ok. have not been cleaned.

Good find!!! Where was it found? Farm, attic?

Great piece as always !!!!

Only one thing to say!

Hard to find s84/98 and in good condition at that! timothy

very nice piece, so it looks like Denmark is area where many remained. What is little strange is the non visible rough filling on ricasso and crossguard area, same as the font of serials are not typical for Paul Weyersberg, but there is no range comparation probably.Possible by 0xxx range they used different fonts. b.r.Andy

This bayonet is very strange. As Andrej noted, the crossguard does not have the typical heavy vertical file or grinding marks as generally observed with very late Paul Weyersberg production. Of even greater interest are the serial number markings. The size and style of these markings are NOT of the type used by Weyersberg. They actually appear to be E. F. Hörster serial numbers, not Weyersberg (both of which are rather distinctive). To be specific, Weyersberg used relatively small serial number digits instead of the larger numbers seen here which are consistent with Hörster. The poorly stamped or damaged die of the 6 is also noted with Hörster beginning in mid-1944. Furthermore, Weyersberg did not include leading 0 (zeros) in their serial numbers. Hörster however did use leading 0 in their serial numbers. If this was a correctly serialed 45crs the serial number would be 436 only. Lastly, Weyersberg used a "round top" digit 3 for their serial numbers instead of the "flat top" 3 as seen here. Not really sure that I like the 45crs marking either. From the photographs looks as if there might be a bit of grinding or buffing to the ricasso under the numbers? In my opinion the entire bayonet appears to be more typical of Hörster manufacture than Weyersberg. Would like to see photos of the obverse pommel including the retention assembly and if possible the blade blank markings under the grips which I think will reveal this is actually a late war Hörster example. My thoughts only ......

To illustrate some of the details described above:

45crs serial number 417 - No leading 0 and centered

45crs serial number 4308 - Note the smaller size numbering as well as the "round top" digit 3

45sgx serial number 8627 - Larger size font as used by Hörster

44sgx serial number 8372kk - Note the size of the digits and the "flat top" 3

Excellent comments by Slash, i forgot add about no existence of first zero serialing, i am too same opinion that the piece is Hoerster, serialed fonts are typical, the grounding filling on lockin nut area is similar to late 44asw/sgx. Certainly it would be correct to compare the exact stamps 45crs on better photos. To dead confirmation we should look the tang area under grips probably.b.r.Andy
PS teoretically could be some spare bayonets send from Hoerster to Paul Weyersberg early 1945??

AndyB said:

Excellent comments by Slash, i forgot add about no existence of first zero serialing, i am too same opinion that the piece is Hoerster, serialed fonts are typical, the grounding filling on lockin nut area is similar to late 44asw/sgx. Certainly it would be correct to compare the exact stamps 45crs on better photos. To dead confirmation we should look the tang area under grips probably.b.r.Andy
PS teoretically could be some spare bayonets send from Hoerster to Paul Weyersberg early 1945??

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Yes Andrei and Lance. It is for sure a Hoerster. The wWa is 519 for Hoerster. I have try to make better pics. It is for sure Hoerster fonts and not "normal" PW fonts. Maybe Hoerster have make some blades for PW in the first months of 1945 ?

crs 45

pics crs 45

AndyB said:

teoretically could be some spare bayonets send from Hoerster to Paul Weyersberg early 1945??

Click to expand...

Thought about this possibility as well Andrej. Perhaps Weyersberg finished some blade blanks supplied by Hörster. It is interesting however that we have this bayonet clearly displaying Hörster features with serial number 0436 and a documented 45crs serial number 417. Only nineteen numbers apart in production which seems very strange if one is to pursue the supplied blade blank theory. Certainly were major oddities in 1945 production with no serial number 45sgx, etc. We learn things everyday in this hobby.

Thanks for the additional photographs stabsfeldwebel2. With this additional information we can definitely confirm the blade blank is Hörster produced, not Weyersberg.

My contribution

Recovered and sadly without scarbard and it has been chromed, but wears no serial number and no WaA

trinxet said:

Recovered and sadly without scarbard and it has been chromed, but wears no serial number and no WaA

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This bayonet uses a Weyersberg produced blade blank. Another feature is that it should not have a WaA to the spine immediately below the mortice slot. Thanks for posting trinxet ....

Correct Slash

Hello
Well seen for the 0
He intrigued me too
Mine


Regards

Certainly we have not exact knowledge what happened in late 44 early 45. Thanks for adding detailed pictures.
Anyway i personally have some doubts, here are the reason why:
- the rifle slot WaA519 is evidently etched by phosphatic acid (parkerisation),same as tang and blade, this is the reason the grinding of blade looks not so heavy and have the special marking on the surface
-the grinding in ricasso area looks like a hand done, certainly not with large grinding stone
-personally dont like the grinding on crossguard, note the side end grinding was done post parkerisation, the rivets are short
-the piece is 100% Hoerster blank like mentioned by Slash
-the end finish on 45crs should be still blueing even light, as noted on pieces presented on Arnaud french sites
-serials are evidently Hoerster fonts,
Thats my opinion, maybe i am wrong here, but there was done something with this piece, evidently wrongly chemically cleaned or parkerised postwar. Question is the piece of same source as last year appeared 45crs pieces from Denmark,but the prices are still remains high??. b.r.Andy

The piece of Trinxet is normal, anyway there could be serial unfortunally there is rusting area, the picture is not sharp, so other parts of metall were heavily polished is no possibility to see any details of typical 45crs finishing already. There are remains of WaA519 near rifle slot probably, but it was polished too.b.r.Andy.

AndyB said:

Certainly we have not exact knowledge what happened in late 44 early 45. Thanks for adding detailed pictures.
Anyway i personally have some doubts, here are the reason why:
- the rifle slot WaA519 is evidently etched by phosphatic acid (parkerisation),same as tang and blade, this is the reason the grinding of blade looks not so heavy and have the special marking on the surface
-the grinding in ricasso area looks like a hand done, certainly not with large grinding stone
-personally dont like the grinding on crossguard, note the side end grinding was done post parkerisation, the rivets are short
-the piece is 100% Hoerster blank like mentioned by Slash
-the end finish on 45crs should be still blueing even light, as noted on pieces presented on Arnaud french sites
-serials are evidently Hoerster fonts,
Thats my opinion, maybe i am wrong here, but there was done something with this piece, evidently wrongly chemically cleaned or parkerised postwar. Question is the piece of same source as last year appeared 45crs pieces from Denmark,but the prices are still remains high??. b.r.Andy

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Hi Andy
I can only say that this piece came from a old collection from Denmark - the seller is a old ww2 collector - an the price was ok and not high as we see. One side of this bayonet is very rusty and have been clean with wire brush? It is a Hoerster blank and Hoerster fonts. I cannot say that someone did anything with this piece. Do you think that it is a fake one .- a blank change to a crs 45? postwar.