Hicks Makes Long Awaited Forum Debut on the Champagne Rune

Bigdibbs88 said:

It’s interesting that in pretty much all of these fairly recent fraud cases the “experts” in question always plead the 5th.

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Hambone said:

It strikes me as unusual that the man who came up with the name "Champagne Rune" will not produce an original Champagne Rune for microscopic analysis or even detailed photographs of an original.

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Of course, this is why I do what I do, and do it the way I do it. I just had a flipping gut full of these old wigs, this bigwig "Ra Ra back in 1961" and "Motel buy take-that-to-the-bank chortle chortle" nonsense post it and run rubbish.
So just went full steam ahead and deiced to unmask the truth myself. Those that tried to suppress the truth, or present their twisted version of it, are now looking pretty stupid.
Granted, I do add extra sauce to spice up the unmasking, and have been known to sprinkle a few piches of salt into the open wounds, but thats because I have had so many years of the same frustrating nonsense from the same group, that I feel they owe me a little something - their wigs, and I want my wigs too. I call that a fair trade for going the extra mile, and taking on the burden of clearing up the decades worth of Ra Ra that they have all profited from in some way.

Jo I'm pretty sure your videos are causing some tears before bedtime for these big wigs!

And yes I love the old remark way back when before you were even born in 1960 something. I bought 100s of these for next too nothing and knew they were real. Bought them from the vet myself or some older guy that walked into the show. He said it was real took it off a dead kraut SS colonel Notzi! They didn't fake stuff after 1945 or before 1960. Its real I tell you! I was the wizard collector back then and just knew. Now I sell them for big money and only I know the truth! When I touch these helmets with my finger thats all the verification you need. Been doing this for 50 something years what the hell do you know! If you speak out against what I know I will cast you out of the WAF forum and send bolts of lightening your way.

Micro Jo said:

Granted, I do add extra sauce to spice up the unmasking, and have been known to sprinkle a few piches of salt into the open wounds, but thats because I have had so many years of the same frustrating nonsense from the same group, that I feel they owe me a little something - their wigs, and I want my wigs too. I call that a fair trade for going the extra mile, and taking on the burden of clearing up the decades worth of Ra Ra that they have all profited from in some way.

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I like your sauce let the big wigs flip its funny to see their same old BS! timothy

Always entertaining and informative Jo

Warrior1354 said:

Jo I'm pretty sure your videos are causing some tears before bedtime for these big wigs!

And yes I love the old remark way back when before you were even born in 1960 something. I bought 100s of these for next too nothing and knew they were real. Bought them from the vet myself or some older guy that walked into the show. He said it was real took it off a dead kraut SS colonel Notzi! They didn't fake stuff after 1945 or before 1960. Its real I tell you! I was the wizard collector back then and just knew. Now I sell them for big money and only I know the truth! When I touch these helmets with my finger thats all the verification you need. Been doing this for 50 something years what the hell do you know! If you speak out against what I know I will cast you out of the WAF forum and send bolts of lightening your way.

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Or call it gunshow lore as one of the famous big wigs says. To justify his own BS. timothy

tjg79 said:

I would think that he still possesses some detailed photos of CR lids, if not all, since he claims to be a lifelong lid researcher. Perhaps the photos don't support his position after a careful second examination in light of the CR lid revelations......

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There are enough owners of them easily identified with the COAs through internet pics, posts, sales, credits in books. It's not like these things are cheap, unidentifiable items. Someone is going to remember what happened to a helmet they spent $5,000 to $24,000 for and where it is or where it went. If they were destroyed or the "decals" obliterated, that tells it all right there. Dealer records will (should) show it, tax returns will (should) show it, bank accounts will show it. If necessary, the subject helmets can be found.

The "Alpha" Champagne Rune, that chickenwire job, "purchased from the vet" in 1974, is somewhere. Maybe the poster at GWH2 still owns it. I bet a significant amount was paid for it. I need to check but I believe it was one examined by DougB and the results published, though I can't remember at present. All it would take would be to acquire one of these and have it independently examined under high magnification and someone who knows decals/transfers from paint.

Which leads to something else I've not seen addressed: even back in the 70s SS helmets weren't easy to find. What are the chances of finding two, with identical "rare" (even for SS decals) "Champagne Rune" "decals" at the same show at the same time from two different sources? For me that would raise a red flag, to put it mildly.



We should not assume the worst and we should give the benefit of the doubt to Mr. Hicks. However, as an authority, author, dealer, expert, authenticator of these things, the one who named them, their "discoverer", a person who charged significant sums for them based upon his certificates of authenticity, it needs to be clarified: was he a victim of the fraud and mistakenly authenticated them or does he contend that the chickenwire NS "Champagne Rune" and the others he authenticated are real? If his position is the latter, that these are real, he needs to produce one for examination or make his case with evidence more than "because I say so and you are shameful for asking for more than that". All my humble opinions as always, however "shameful" and "damaging to the hobby" Mr. Hicks says they are.

Hambone said:

We should not assume the worst and we should give the benefit of the doubt to Mr. Hicks.

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Hahahahahahahahah

FYI: the thread has been reopened on GHW.

F.

Frank F. said:

FYI: the thread has been reopened on GHW.

F.

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Why did they open the locked thread?

tjg79 said:

Why did they open the locked thread?

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I would say for the purpose of equal time and transparency for the benefit of the hobby. German helmet collecting is a little different animal than what we've got going on in the K98k end of things, though we have people in both. GWH2 is doing what it can under the circumstances and I think doing a good job of it. I support what they are doing. Hobo posted there and there really isn't much left to say from where it left off that hasn't been said multiple times. At the end of the day, as of today, "it's original because I say so, notwithstanding all the evidence to the contrary" is only an acceptable response for the toadiest of toadies.

Hambone said:

I would say for the purpose of equal time and transparency for the benefit of the hobby. German helmet collecting is a little different animal than what we've got going on in the K98k end of things, though we have people in both. GWH2 is doing what it can under the circumstances and I think doing a good job of it. I support what they are doing. Hobo posted there and there really isn't much left to say from where it left off that hasn't been said multiple times. At the end of the day, as of today, "it's original because I say so, notwithstanding all the evidence to the contrary" is only an acceptable response for the toadiest of toadies.

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And, don't forget, he thinks XRFacts style lid testing is a valid technique to out fakes as well. And, it makes sense to him, because the XRF raygun confirmed the CR decal was identical to a legit non-CR decal with the exception of some copper.

I`ll allow myself the cheek of a comment that sticks out to me, and one I use when looking at small badges in particular.
Many if not most collectors would judge a badge by its attachment, if they immediately see a known modern fake attachment, for them the baby is out the window with the bathwater. Being a separate part of the badge, I would judge that last, and consider the item first, as an original could have a modern attachment added (seen that many times) and a fake could have a period attachment added (seen and done that before myself countless times too.)
With decals, they are a separate part and are in no way any indication that the lid they are affixed to is genuine. You are going to find period helmets with post-war decals added by collectors to spice up the price, and you could find a post-war helmet with a period decal added. The later needs a little stretching of the imagination, but the possibility is there, so I can`s see why all this fuss is made about decals, and how you could possibly zap a decal, prove it to be NOT spray-painted, so kinda periody...and viola, lid is also guaranteed genuine.

Surely the lid must come first and the decal be ignored. Only after the lid is guaranteed genuine, should you turn to the decal, and then decide if:
The decal is genuine
The decal was in all likelihood the only decal ever affixed, and period to the lid.

USCS03 said:

The only 3 legit SS items I own are 2 mess hall spoons my great uncle brought back from the SS mess hall at Dachau and a Gew98 SS conversion (not matching). Unless I am getting the item locally where I can study it, or it is coming from someone I know well, I am not wading into that minefield.

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It would be interesting to see a photo of those spoons, to see how they compare with the SS marked (SS runes and Totenkopf) Dachau table spoon I dug up in the Dachau SS complex back around 1971. I'll have to dig it out of whatever box I have it stored in and take and post some photos of it. I found this spoon, along with a number of German helmets, a couple Italian helmets, and a lot of broken Allach porcelain, in a burn pile on the SS training grounds which were the U.S. Army "Riverside Golf Course" at the time. I brought several of the helmets back with me, but unfortunately traded them off to other collectors, so have none of the ones I personally recovered left

I do have one my uncle in Dachau gave me that he found at Dachau in 1970 - he said there were a few barrels full of them in the old SS camp there, which was at the time the U.S. Army "Camp Dachau". There was no original paint remaining on the helmet and thus no traces of any decals, just a coating of rust.

I was 14 at the time and sought to "restore" it, so the paint and decals on it in the photos are something I added.

It is an SE 64 marked helmet, no visible lot number as this marking must have been in one of the heavier rusted areas and eaten away by the rust.

All the other German helmets I found at Dachau were also SE marked, I don't remember the lot numbers on them though. They were all rusty with no original finish visible either, having been burned and/or buried in the ground.

Hambone said:

Wouldn't you think that with all this authority and expertise at some point in the 41 years from 1974 to 2015 someone of some degree of expertise would look at these Champagne Rune "decals" under high magnification as DougB did, which would have exposed these things?

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Groupthink, condescension, group shaming, ostracization and ultimate banning being the response of legitimate scientific process had a lot to do with it taking so long. It took a couple of knowledgeable, brave, truthful and determined men to finally send the cockroaches scurrying.

I own but two, legitimate SS items. Both HJ. Belt buckle and an armband. I don’t count my Volkssturm stuff as SS. God knows, I wish I had a legit SS K98k. Alas...


KJ

So, if I had one of these "sham-pain" helmets (thank god I don't) and now wanted to sell it, it would probably be more difficult to sell because of the controversy? If I was buying and read what's been brought to light, I wouldn't be buying. Now back to me wanting to sell,,, how would I go about getting things " made right"? "Made right" meaning, I was sold this helmet as it being legitimate and now that's questionable so I may lose money. I can afford an attorney and a good one. What should I do??



Again, I don't have one and am thankful I didn't have the money years back when it seemed these guys knew everything there was to know about them. But there was that elite group kinda thing going on, exclusive club and still is. I've found over the years that the exclusive club is better left alone and instead of joining or trying to, sit back and enjoy the show. I know people have different personalities and all but you can walk by a table at the sos and tell who thinks their crap doesn't stink.

Fellow who first tried to expose the "Champagne Rune" SS decal as an airbrushed fraud was expelled at WAF. Latest video update on all of this.

Hambone said:

IMHO, Mr. Hicks' forum Champagne Rune debut commentary would have been better, or at least relevant and responsive, had it addressed in some detail the following simple questions:
1) As it appears clearly that the Champagne Rune lids examined by DougB (and others) (some with your COAs) are airbrushed, what/who do you think is the source?
2) If the Champagne Rune is real as you contend, can you show us one or even pictures of one?
3) How did XRFacts "authenticate" airbrushed faux decals as being "elementally" consistent with other actual SS decals?

If answering those simple questions is not possible, what about a simple admission that a mistake was made, i.e., "just like all other humans, I made a mistake and was taken in by these airbrushed fakes just like many others. I have made it right with those with COAs and those helmets I've sold" ? The latter would certainly get the acceptance and respect of the people here. I think everyone with some ability to comprehend and perform objective analysis can see. As always, my opinions only.

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Although belated, it appears that Kelly Hicks took your advice from January 2018 and admitted "a big sad mistake" was made, and "I have made it right."

Kelly Hicks: "It wasn't a scam, it was just a big sad mistake." @32:30 & "And, as you will hear or have heard in the remarks I just, that were just posted, I've made that right with everyone who I ever authenticated one for or ever sold one to, and it's not all that many..." @31:50 - Militaria Review: The Champagne Decal scam Part 3 w/Kelly Hicks posted on YouTube Nov 14, 2021.

When he was preparing for the interview, he must have been wondering who can he turn to for good collecting advice when you're caught in a scam, and then realized Hambone has always offered good collecting advice, that I should've taken years ago. Militaria Review helped him out by displaying the link to this thread in Part 1 @4:00.

tjg79 said:

Although belated, it appears that Kelly Hicks took your advice from January 2018 and admitted "a big sad mistake" was made, and "I have made it right."

Kelly Hicks: "It wasn't a scam, it was just a big sad mistake." @32:30 & "And, as you will hear or have heard in the remarks I just, that were just posted, I've made that right with everyone who I ever authenticated one for or ever sold one to, and it's not all that many..." @31:50 - Militaria Review: The Champagne Decal scam Part 3 w/Kelly Hicks posted on YouTube Nov 14, 2021.

When he was preparing for the interview, he must have been wondering who can he turn to for good collecting advice when you're caught in a scam, and then realized Hambone has always offered good collecting advice, that I should've taken years ago. Militaria Review helped him out by displaying the link to this thread in Part 1 @4:00.

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That's so funny. I'm Nostradumbass Perhaps I should send him a bill for the advice