Third Party Press

Mauser Spandau 1917 INFORMATION NEEDED

M

mielverbruggen

Member
Hello,

once again my desperate try in trying to receive more information about my Mauser Spandau 1917. If the pictures are not clear enough again I'll rent a camera :) .
What do all the symbols mean and whats the origin of this Mauser?
It would be awesome if someone could give me an idea how much it is worth as well.
It seems pretty beaten up so my guess is that this gun has some beautiful but harsh history in it.
Thanks in advance! :happy0180:

Pic 2: N° on top : ... ... 7 0 (unreadable or something else)
Pic 3: N° 4 3
Pic 4: N° 5 8 0 7 (and a small letter d)
Pic 5: Symbol of eagle and a letter
Pic 7: N° 4 5 6 5 (and the eagle)
Pic 8: Three letters
Pic 9: Number on the stock not found but probably worn off
Pic 10: N° 4 5 6 5 (two letters)


27710887_1628144230598667_458177114_o.jpg27707308_1628144193932004_453593165_o.jpg27710769_1628144173932006_1214489565_o.jpg27744257_1628144170598673_1530362429_o.jpg27707967_1628144163932007_1614510425_o.jpg27744684_1628144167265340_916088308_o.jpg27708273_1628144137265343_508046619_o.jpg27744389_1628144107265346_672726725_o.jpg27744964_1628144147265342_1716745835_o.jpg27786274_1628144143932009_1617971212_o.jpg27708114_1628144077265349_1664873495_o.jpg27746566_1628144133932010_985626787_o.jpg27707709_1628144067265350_2087466968_o.jpg27744398_1628144060598684_869505629_o.jpg27710875_1628144063932017_584590689_o.jpg27744991_1628144070598683_330578560_o.jpg
 
Last edited:
The rifle is probably very late 1917 production by Spandau, with this acceptance pattern it should have a suffix, perhaps e-h ranges, but not a no suffix rifle. Take a picture of the barrel serial and see if it has a letter suffix.

The stock actually could be legit matching, not probable, but possible. Walnut with grips, but no TD, is possible in late 1916-early 1917, but short of the stock acceptance pattern, you would have to see the inside barrel channel to see if it matches. With the fit and general appearance of the matching parts (fit around the receiver & TG inlet) it wouldn't surprise me that this stock is matching.

Either way, this rifle should be a suffixed rifle with that RR. Good news is it is actual Spandau production, not some castoff to another, which most Spandau/17's are. Spandau/17's are actually fairly hard to find, about the only 1917 that is.
 
Loewe said:
The rifle is probably very late 1917 production by Spandau, with this acceptance pattern it should have a suffix, perhaps e-h ranges, but not a no suffix rifle. Take a picture of the barrel serial and see if it has a letter suffix.

The stock actually could be legit matching, not probable, but possible. Walnut with grips, but no TD, is possible in late 1916-early 1917, but short of the stock acceptance pattern, you would have to see the inside barrel channel to see if it matches. With the fit and general appearance of the matching parts (fit around the receiver & TG inlet) it wouldn't surprise me that this stock is matching.

Either way, this rifle should be a suffixed rifle with that RR. Good news is it is actual Spandau production, not some castoff to another, which most Spandau/17's are. Spandau/17's are actually fairly hard to find, about the only 1917 that is.
Click to expand...

So it's a pretty original weapon? It's really a shame but I have to sell it. Always thaught the weapon was disabled in the barrel and that the firing pin was missing. Turns out everything is there resulting in the fact I'll need a permit to keep it.
Is it in good shape? I have a feeling my pre owner could have taken better care.
 
Impossible to tell what condition it is in, from these pictures, - I am saying this rifle was made by Spandau and most of the parts you show suggest the stock could be original. This stock configuration is possible for this rifle, though without "you" confirming the serial or showing stock acceptance no one can say for sure. If the stocks acceptance has been worn away or sanded, the only recourse is a disassembly "if you want to know". It would matter a great deal in the US, though in Belgium you would have a better grasp on what it takes to sell a rifle.

The rifle shows considerable wear and use, so much so it doesn't show a suffix, - which it should have one with this acceptance pattern (it is possible this pattern extends to a no suffix range, but its quite a leap with what is currently observed). Try and take a picture of the barrel serial number, perhaps it will reveal whether there is a suffix to the serial. If you are loath to disassemble the rifle to observe the interior serial (to confirm whether the stock is original), you could closely examine the buttplate, perhaps a partial serial can be made out, or the top screw location shows a suffix. Also the bayonet lug would have the last two digits of the serial.

Either or, but with these pictures nothing else can be said.

mielverbruggen said:
So it's a pretty original weapon? It's really a shame but I have to sell it. Always thaught the weapon was disabled in the barrel and that the firing pin was missing. Turns out everything is there resulting in the fact I'll need a permit to keep it.
Is it in good shape? I have a feeling my pre owner could have taken better care.
Click to expand...
 
I'm not keen on taking things apart. I would love to but I'm scared I won't be able to put everything back in place. So if I check the suffix on the bayonet lug and the buttplate then you can make a verdict?
I'll wash the buttplate and hopefully the suffix will be readable. I'll let you know!


Loewe said:
Impossible to tell what condition it is in, from these pictures, - I am saying this rifle was made by Spandau and most of the parts you show suggest the stock could be original. This stock configuration is possible for this rifle, though without "you" confirming the serial or showing stock acceptance no one can say for sure. If the stocks acceptance has been worn away or sanded, the only recourse is a disassembly "if you want to know". It would matter a great deal in the US, though in Belgium you would have a better grasp on what it takes to sell a rifle.

The rifle shows considerable wear and use, so much so it doesn't show a suffix, - which it should have one with this acceptance pattern (it is possible this pattern extends to a no suffix range, but its quite a leap with what is currently observed). Try and take a picture of the barrel serial number, perhaps it will reveal whether there is a suffix to the serial. If you are loath to disassemble the rifle to observe the interior serial (to confirm whether the stock is original), you could closely examine the buttplate, perhaps a partial serial can be made out, or the top screw location shows a suffix. Also the bayonet lug would have the last two digits of the serial.

Either or, but with these pictures nothing else can be said.
Click to expand...
 
Ok so I checked for a serial number on the buttplate without succes.
Then I checked for the last two digits on the bayonet lug. Wich I thought I had failed as well. I spotted the number 65 on it. I'm 80 procent sure it says 65 but its written pretty small. On the picture you can see where I spotted it. So what does this mean for the value or history of the Mauser?
Again big thanks to clarify this for me. It means a LOT.

27744839_1629005780512512_1527246278_o.jpg
 
Make sure the rifle is unloaded or bolt removed and look at the front of the bayonet lug (muzzle facing you, at an angle preferably), an acceptance should be on the left and a serial on the right (last two), - not on the bayonet bar.

I would closely examine the stock for markings, you might get a faint serial along the bottom of the buttstock and acceptance at the wrist, either of which would lend support for a matching stock.

I would say there is a good chance, probably 50-50 it is the original stock, for the reasons I mentioned earlier, but most buyers would want certainty and it will influence the price a buyer will pay if this certainty is absent.

*** At the top of the buttplate, above the top screw, there maybe a single letter, the suffix, maybe not, but its worth looking for as supporting evidence.
 
I was able to read the digits and it was 65 wich is great. The left suffix is unreadable but tomorrow I will wash it of and then it will be clear!
Thank you
On the bottom of the buttstock I see something along the lines of 54, but the two digits afterwards are unreadable. I think I see a 6 but it's possible i'm imagining things. The suffix above the top screw is unreadable unfortunatly.

Loewe said:
Make sure the rifle is unloaded or bolt removed and look at the front of the bayonet lug (muzzle facing you, at an angle preferably), an acceptance should be on the left and a serial on the right (last two), - not on the bayonet bar.

I would closely examine the stock for markings, you might get a faint serial along the bottom of the buttstock and acceptance at the wrist, either of which would lend support for a matching stock.

I would say there is a good chance, probably 50-50 it is the original stock, for the reasons I mentioned earlier, but most buyers would want certainty and it will influence the price a buyer will pay if this certainty is absent.

*** At the top of the buttplate, above the top screw, there maybe a single letter, the suffix, maybe not, but its worth looking for as supporting evidence.
Click to expand...
 
Hai Loewie,

Me again. I really had to contact you about this. Today a guy came looking at that Mauser Spandau we talked about. It's a guy I normally trust and knows a lot about Military gear and stuff. He is going to propose the gun to some possible buyers on a market tomorrow. And I had to say a price for the gun.
Since he knows so much about it all I asked what he would sell it for.
He said, and don't panic, 150 euro's wich is about 180 dollars.
This can't be the right price. There are bayonets that sell for more than that.

He said the price was so low because some things were missing.
- The safety doesnt work well
- There is a piece of wood missing in the front
- The belt piece on the stock is missing
As you can see on the pictures.

PLease give me your advice since I'm worried he's setting me up. I told him he needed to ask 200 euro's tomorrow wich, I feel, is still way below the value.
FB85F130-1C96-45E0-8581-FCD7D5ECA529.jpg 43EDA7F6-5604-4D94-A7E8-DE509B77946A.jpg E30E11B2-CB36-4FDD-861B-A3A179E3C511.jpg

The market is not the same as in the US but military stuff is actually pretty dxpensive here. It really lives on especially WW1. I can’t believe that these minor damages to the gun brings down the value like that.
The guy said it was a low price because buying the parts that are missing is propably expensive to.
 
I can help very little regarding value in Belgium, I have nothing to base it upon, however the price is low for the US even if all the potential negatives turn out true. The disparity between values dealing with bayonets and rifles depends upon many factors, - very often a bayonet can be worth more than a rifle, sometimes much more, I have sold $2000 bayonets before (and $200 rifles), further bayonet collecting has certain advantages, for one they require no licence or government intrusion in your life, no background checks and more people can own them, this applies here as well, - some states and cities are extremely hostile to firearms, our federal laws require all states and governments to accommodate the Second Amendment, but that only means they have to formulate a method to allow private ownership, not that it is easy or practical. I would imagine in Europe it is much the same... bayonets are easier to own so a larger market exists.

Regarding the rifle, as I have said until blue in the face, you do not show enough to make a full determination of the rifles value. I wouldn't buy it for what it is probably worth, maybe $400 in the US, because you are unwilling to show the rifle properly. You have not shown the barrel serial, which hopefully has a suffix (it should); I see now with these last pictures a fairly clear partial serial on the stock that probably means it is the original stock. That is a big plus, but you can also see its been sanded and abused.

Buyers want certainty, if you want a fair price then show the details that a buyer would want to have that certainty. A rifle will ultimately sell itself if you allow it to do the talking. Flippers and conmen are willing to take a gamble for a low price, because the averages favor them when there is a high profit potential (margin). Your buyer is probably a flipper or middleman that hopes to make a little on the squeeze, but to be fair, you are making it necessary.
 
I tried my best giving all the information you needed from me. I think I gave you what you asked for and like I said I’m not keen on taking things apart. I can lent a camera to take some last clear pictures but that will be it.
If it’s not what you askes for then this is due to the language barrier. I’ll try to sell the gun for 400 euros wich I think is a reasonable price here in Belgium. It sucks really.. I thought it would be worth more here.
Thanks for your patience.

Loewe said:
I can help very little regarding value in Belgium, I have nothing to base it upon, however the price is low for the US even if all the potential negatives turn out true. The disparity between values dealing with bayonets and rifles depends upon many factors, - very often a bayonet can be worth more than a rifle, sometimes much more, I have sold $2000 bayonets before (and $200 rifles), further bayonet collecting has certain advantages, for one they require no licence or government intrusion in your life, no background checks and more people can own them, this applies here as well, - some states and cities are extremely hostile to firearms, our federal laws require all states and governments to accommodate the Second Amendment, but that only means they have to formulate a method to allow private ownership, not that it is easy or practical. I would imagine in Europe it is much the same... bayonets are easier to own so a larger market exists.

Regarding the rifle, as I have said until blue in the face, you do not show enough to make a full determination of the rifles value. I wouldn't buy it for what it is probably worth, maybe $400 in the US, because you are unwilling to show the rifle properly. You have not shown the barrel serial, which hopefully has a suffix (it should); I see now with these last pictures a fairly clear partial serial on the stock that probably means it is the original stock. That is a big plus, but you can also see its been sanded and abused.

Buyers want certainty, if you want a fair price then show the details that a buyer would want to have that certainty. A rifle will ultimately sell itself if you allow it to do the talking. Flippers and conmen are willing to take a gamble for a low price, because the averages favor them when there is a high profit potential (margin). Your buyer is probably a flipper or middleman that hopes to make a little on the squeeze, but to be fair, you are making it necessary.
Click to expand...
 
Hello Miel,

the problem is you don't have papers for the gun, which makes it undesirable for collectors like us..

I wouldn't touch it with a stick because I risk loosing all of my licenses if it ever gets found..

so yes, it sucks, but in this condition it's not worth a lot of money.

If you want to catch someting for it, cut the firing pin, and drill some holes in the barrel.
plug it with something so that you cannot insert a bullet and sell it on tweedehands.net

Groetjes,
Johan

PS, don't sell it like this because it's an illegal gun at this point..
 
Last edited:
I absolutely understand.. When I got the gun I was told that al of that had been done (not the holes) and that the barrel was filled up with some sort of metal. So at that point I had no problem with it.
Not so long ago I took the rifle of the shelf and wanted to inspect it from the inside. I realised that it was fully functional wich was a shock. I was told some people can get a license (like hunters) sl they can posses it legally.
It would be a shame to destroy such a masterpiece.
Believe me, I would never sell it to someone random who could do bad things with it.
But yeah maybe you’re right. It’s actually a pretty hard decision to make but I understand your reaction.

Hellraiser said:
Hello Miel,

the problem is you don't have papers for the gun, which makes it undesirable for collectors like us..

I wouldn't touch it with a stick because I risk loosing all of my licenses if it ever gets found..

so yes, it sucks, but in this condition it's not worth a lot of money.

If you want to catch someting for it, cut the firing pin, and drill some holes in the barrel.
plug it with something so that you cannot insert a bullet and sell it on tweedehands.net

Groetjes,
Johan

PS, don't sell it like this because it's an illegal gun at this point..
Click to expand...
 
Damn.. Thats indeed very sad.
This is so difficult. Had this rifle for like 3 years without the idea it was fully functional.
But now I know it’s not it still hurts thinking about dissabling it. Guess there is not really another option. Not keen on getting busted selling a functional rifle :p.
 
Hoi Miel,

van waar ben je ergens?
ik kan je wel helpen om het op een goede manier onklaar te maken
zodat je het kunt houden?

Groetjes,
Johan

(Hello Miel,
where are you from?
I can help you demilling it so you can keep it?)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Military Rifle Journal
Back
Top