Bolt type and numbering

Hi

What is your opinion about this bolt, any opinion about numbering and manufacturers etc. is appreciated

Thanks in advance
theDane

To me the “1” on the cocking piece looks like a normal Gustloff number 1 but just a guess. Clearly someone (or country) tried to remove the serial numbers on some parts but did a pretty poor job of it! The firing proof on the back of the bolt root has a “Z” overstamped probably by whoever did all the grinding. What is this bolt out of?


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It's out of a J.P. Sauer s/147 from 1937, and it is not forced to match the rifle.

It's not force matched because Bubba never finished his project.

Curious and awful at the same time. I was somewhat on the fence even up to the back of the cocking piece. Incidental damage? The radial machining is only missing in 2 small swatches between say 4:30 and 6. Bolt collar is terrible. Looks like they dipped a disc grinder onto the serial number pad. Safety is even worse. They had somewhat of a plan I guess but the execution is horrid. They linear tooling marks aren't even or straight as a machine would make and in a couple spots they jumped out of the hollow. Also the 1 appears to be on top of the new mess while the other digits are obviously under it??? Humper test run? Can't think of any other logical explanation than that. They hosed it up bad and moved on. Sad

I agree to your thoughts, I have no idea of how, when or why it was made like this, and it somehow also doesn't matter.
Yes, it is sad that people do something like this, the good thing is that it is not a matching K98, and the other thing is that I do have a spare bolt. Any thoughts about the Z?
For me it looks odd if bubba tried to renumber the bolt, and at the same time stamped a Z, as for me it does not make any sence.

Until I saw the bolt shroud I was thinking Israeli... I have seen some heavy handed reworks from Balkan countries as well.

This one though... grind marks look too fresh!

the Dane said:

I agree to your thoughts, I have no idea of how, when or why it was made like this, and it somehow also doesn't matter.
Yes, it is sad that people do something like this.

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I certainly wasn't trying to insinuate that you did this but it surely seems like an amateurish attempt to alter the serial numbers for some purpose. I can only suppose they were trying to make it 'matching'

Sad but as you said at least they didn't destroy a matching rifle.

the Dane said:

Any thoughts about the Z? For me it looks odd if bubba tried to renumber the bolt, and at the same time stamped a Z, as for me it does not make any sence.

Click to expand...

"Bubba" , like "humped", has become a completely useless term in my opinion. Do you mean an individual in Denmark? Or a low level armorer? or a country lacking the technical, manufacturing, will or want, to neatly and cautiously rework a rifle?

In Europe, someone MAY be able to find a Serif set of font or number stamps. In the US they are RARE, and extremely expensive if you do find a set. They are extremely expensive to make correctly and to match original markings. There is much reference to "humping" and "faking" that is ludicrous given the knowledge and expense required to ACCURATELY replicate. Forgeries abound, but the gross ignorance to manufacturing in the collecting field shows itself, badly, in regards to some of the fakes available. I am a rank NOVICE when it comes to K98's and even I can pick out the rifles that were restamped with the cheaply and incorrectly EDM made stamps from Poland and elsewhere.

Not picking on you, or anyone, merely stating my observations.

Not everything we see is "malicious" or intended as a fake. I knew an older gentleman who has since passed who had a nice little collection of weapons he captured from WWII. Its been at least 15 years, possibly more, so I don't remember the details, but he had ground the numbers off one of his rifles because he did not like that it was non-matching numbers. He also refinished the stock and reblued at least one rifle because he did not like the wear and tear. He did not care about collectors, in fact until I told him otherwise, he did not even know that WWII guns were collectible. He did not collect guns, was not in the "gun community", in fact, I don't think he owned any guns besides those.

I remember being about 17 years old when I bought my first Garand. One of my family members who served in WWII came over and I showed it to him. He was astonished. He figured they had all been scrapped decades prior. He had no idea why anyone would have one, save one, shoot one, never entered his head that after WWII someone would keep such a thing.

Every once in awhile, we have to, as collectors, pull ourselves out of our narrowly focused work, and remember that the rest of the world has no clue what we are doing. My own family, if they found a K98k in the barn would, quite LITERALLY, throw it in the burn pile with the trash. It has no purpose. It has no functionality. At best they would throw it in the scrap bin. I took a pile of machinist files from the barn that were from my wife's great grandfather. Late 1800's, early 1900's, everyone in the family, vocally, expressed that I was nuts. They were going to throw them away or just leave them to rust. Most people around here still think MAUSER is spelled MOUSER. That is how I find a lot of my auction buys. There, now you know the secret

@heavy_mech: I didn't thought that you insinuate that I did this.

When I used the term Bubba, I simply just meant someone that ruined the riffle, someone that didn't care about keeping things original.

It's correct, Those who do not collect, they have a completely different attitude and point of view, dosen't matter if it is firearms or stamps or whatever people collect.