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Thread: Spandau 1910 Kar.98

  1. #11
    Moderator² Loewe's Avatar
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    There are many instances of such assembly, typically at the end of a production run, or at the beginning of a start-up. Receivers being critical parts and hard to make were always used if possible, when a facility stopped production you often see a few receivers diverted elsewhere (occurred more commonly in the National Socialist period); with the Imperial era they follow far fewer patterns and opinion often times has to take the place of facts... being acceptance being personalized in this period (how many Germans with a "P" or "S" in their last name? How prevalent were they as inspectors, probably several... the Republican period when numbers were adopted for inspectors makes such things easy to decipher, not so much 1871-1918) it is more difficult to identify the inspector with absolute certainty. In many cases other attributes can distinguish these build with less doubt. Wartime Erfurt builds often have a "E" across the receiver, similar to the "H" receivers, the Danzig and Suhl start up builds are commonly encountered also, the builds by Mauser with their trademark across the top, but these slippery pre-wars like this you have to assemble clues, like fireproofs, observation compariasions, acceptance, etc..

    One example, who made this Kar.98a?

    Quote Originally Posted by mauser1908 View Post
    Beautiful example! Great info Paul, that's incredibly interesting. I never knew 98a receivers were assembled by arsenals other than what was marked on them.
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    Another, though fine details are absent, who do you imagine made this rifle? I think Erfurt due to rifles that fall into this pattern. But, in the end much of this is educated guesswork, not necessarily fact (though these days the distinction is pretty hazy among the media who think if they pontificate some opinion it magically turns into a fact... most "journalists" need to consult a dictionary and refresh their definition of fact vs. opinion), but as a specialist on this subject I am confident these are Erfurt made carbines.
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    It is very difficult to catch it. Especially because it is already dark here.

    I would say, that it is Crown/S.
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    Default A baffler with no precedent

    Try and unravel this carbine, Spandau is only known to have made 98a receivers 1908-1910, yet this one is dated 1914 and is a small ring Kar.98a receiver. Siderail not shown. By all evidence, fireproof, acceptance this is an Erfurt, yet many would stand by this as proof Spandau made the Kar.98a in 1914 (they didn't but who can explain the receiver, perhaps a leftover 1910 re-dated? Has the C/P hardening acceptance, but who knows..)

    Anyway, the last exercise is just something to chew on, many other similar cases, though mostly between Danzig and Erfurt, not so much Spandau and Erfurt, - probably because Spandau had more important things to do as the foremost arsenal.
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    Last edited by Loewe; 02-13-2018 at 01:48 PM.

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    Yes, probably C/S, but I am more concerned with the larger? What do you make of the larger acceptance stamp, the letter? Here is a Erfurt/1911 wrist for example.

    The wrist acceptance is the most stable acceptance on any Imperial rifle, it can vary, though less so than under the cypher (which is the least reliable, revolving between a few inspectors with no real pattern), the wrist and lower buttstock tend to be more stable, even pre-war when nothing is very stable (I think pre-war the inspectors took a more hands on approach, probably due to training and saving money, - you need a pool of trained inspectors in case war when they will be dispersed and given more autonomy, plus the low tempo and cost savings using inspectors instead of more workers...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Icarus8383 View Post
    It is very difficult to catch it. Especially because it is already dark here.

    I would say, that it is Crown/S.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loewe View Post
    Yes, probably C/S, but I am more concerned with the larger? What do you make of the larger acceptance stamp, the letter? Here is a Erfurt/1911 wrist for example.
    Yes, it is the same stamp. So it id indeed an Erfurt made rifle. The only secret now is why are there three identical acceptance stamps on the receiver. ;-)

  7. #17
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    It has me a little baffled, if the receiver inspector was C/P and he was at Spandau, one would think the assembly acceptance and test inspections done at Erfurt would be a different inspector? That the fireproof is Erfurt style the results of the assembly and testing acceptance would seem to indicate Erfurt did them...

    Perhaps C/P moved to Erfurt when Spandau dropped the Kar.98a? As evidenced by the rifle I illustrated from the same block early in this thread. Danzig was the strongest maker of the 98a pre-war, they dominated production, but Erfurt's production didn't rise appreciably after 1910 (1910 was their highest pre-war year though), so why would they need another inspector. If we had better observations for pre-war production we might be able to see how active C/P was at Erfurt, but production was low and most observations are scanty, - idiot owners taking dozens of irrelevant pictures and few of importance.

    Anyway, I think it is indisputable Erfurt had a hand in this rifles manufacture, where exactly it began may be open to question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Icarus8383 View Post
    The only secret now is why are there three identical acceptance stamps on the receiver. ;-)

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