Third Party Press

SS Contract and Single Rune serial study

Thanks, it is always helpful to have thoroughly detailed rifles in a sea of half reportings and rc's...

Yes, SDP was taking on a few stamped components in Army production. SS contracts are more prone to inconsistency, the Army contracts remained far more consistent with SDP-Radom components until the evacuation (of course the SS contracts were also late production, so it is harder to date them, - many 1943 dated are actually 1944 assembles). Trigger guard components are more common than the bands, it seems SDP took advantage of the stamped TG components earlier, probably curtailing the more complicated parts at Radom to take advantage of the new supply.

Regarding the barrel shoulder numbers, the only thing I can think of is possibly something along the lines of assembly numbers, but the patterns do not support this. First class firms like DWM would use such numbers on barrels and receivers (also TG) to mate the two components, sort of a pre-fitting exercise before serialing?? But SDP was neither a first class rifle maker (not since 1939) nor was this apparently needed by any firm in WWII. But, whatever the numbering on the barrel shoulder relates too, it began shortly before this rifle and became almost mandatory after this rifle (though so inconsistent in application to be indecipherable... just 0-9 and an alpha or two, perhaps if we had more examples like this to examine, thoroughly detailed, we could come up with some good guesses, but not too many take the time to detail a rifle this thoroughly, - which is what this forum was designed for, research, not blathering and bleating about every outrage in humperville)

The safety is 77 marked. The bolt is also double 77 marked with a clear eagle. The ejector assembly, extractor and collar are also 77 marked. Looks like a '0' on the barrel and there is no 623 at the wrist on the lower. The buttplate has no markings nor does the milled follower or milled band spring. From what I've read, wasn't SDP switching to stamped parts around this time?
 
Thanks, it is always helpful to have thoroughly detailed rifles in a sea of half reportings and rc's...

Yes, SDP was taking on a few stamped components in Army production. SS contracts are more prone to inconsistency, the Army contracts remained far more consistent with SDP-Radom components until the evacuation (of course the SS contracts were also late production, so it is harder to date them, - many 1943 dated are actually 1944 assembles). Trigger guard components are more common than the bands, it seems SDP took advantage of the stamped TG components earlier, probably curtailing the more complicated parts at Radom to take advantage of the new supply.

Regarding the barrel shoulder numbers, the only thing I can think of is possibly something along the lines of assembly numbers, but the patterns do not support this. First class firms like DWM would use such numbers on barrels and receivers (also TG) to mate the two components, sort of a pre-fitting exercise before serialing?? But SDP was neither a first class rifle maker (not since 1939) nor was this apparently needed by any firm in WWII. But, whatever the numbering on the barrel shoulder relates too, it began shortly before this rifle and became almost mandatory after this rifle (though so inconsistent in application to be indecipherable... just 0-9 and an alpha or two, perhaps if we had more examples like this to examine, thoroughly detailed, we could come up with some good guesses, but not too many take the time to detail a rifle this thoroughly, - which is what this forum was designed for, research, not blathering and bleating about every outrage in humperville)

Well said and I would be very willing to participate in such a study or gathering of information on SDP markings.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Where was the sszza4 facility located?

It’s uncertain which facility used this stamp. My opinion, the SS depot at Kurmark has the highest chance, but older theories include Prague in the mix. I write about it in the book, too lengthy to put in a forum post with all of the supporting evidence. You really need a thorough understanding of the SS depot system to get it straight.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
It’s uncertain which facility used this stamp. My opinion, the SS depot at Kurmark has the highest chance, but older theories include Prague in the mix. I write about it in the book, too lengthy to put in a forum post with all of the supporting evidence. You really need a thorough understanding of the SS depot system to get it straight.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you .
 
..the SS depot at Kurmark has the highest chance

I had read this part of the bible and it makes sense for several reasons, firstly being it was a named Zeugamt or arsenal. As you note there being an SS recruiting, training and Officer Command training located there it makes more sense.
 
It’s uncertain which facility used this stamp. My opinion, the SS depot at Kurmark has the highest chance, but older theories include Prague in the mix. I write about it in the book, too lengthy to put in a forum post with all of the supporting evidence. You really need a thorough understanding of the SS depot system to get it straight.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Would be great to have a talk on this at SOS, many aspects of this that I am not familiar with, but finding more and more interesting. I’ve been studying some fairly niche fragments of SDP production and am positive I have some new information to share. Would be awesome for everyone to bring some of their notes and have a discussion and sharing of information, especially of rhetorical ideas and speculations based on data and research that aren’t proper to put into print without further study. Here’s some interesting food for thought for instance, a shooting range was recently discovered at Gusen, opens some possibilities..
 
I’d like that. Remember that MG42’s and MP40’s are said to have been assembled at Gusen, so I can see needing a range there. I would also say that originally the SS wanted all aspects of 98k assembly done there but Steyr couldn’t make it happen logistically ( or didn’t want to ).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Interesting, didn’t know that, but I haven’t got too deep into Gusen yet. Would love to hear more on all of this, just too much to convey in a post and all very interesting! I believe the range was found in 2014/15 and is a partially underground structure (pop up target style at the back drop), hence how it was “found” during an excavation. Looking forward to SOS!
 
The shooting range is nothing new. They are still shooting there nowadays and I think the oldest shooting club in Austria (it was a SS shooting range during WWII). There are three shooting lanes, 50m, 100m and 150m.

They did dig on this area there, but for a different reason: they were suspecting that they have had additional underground tunnels there and have found an entrance to a tunnel at the shooting range. Claims are there were experiments with radioactive material being done in this area.

Edit: pictures of the tunnels to be found here: http://www.geheimprojekte.at/deckname_b8_bergkristall.html and https://www.meinbezirk.at/perg/c-lo...llen-in-st-georgengusen_a1211490#gallery=null

Additional information on the research done on possible extensive tunnel system (also with English summary) here: https://www.land-oberoesterreich.gv.at/149589.htm
 
Last edited:
Yes I know, I was mentioning the recent (illegal) excavation. I’ve already read all of those, but thanks for the links.
 
Hi, Mine can be added here as well. A few members cleared it.

Single rune K98

SN5102 Barrel code ae - Bo Waffenamt wa?23
 
D9998D47-9A0A-458B-A87E-AF196C190F9C.jpegbnz 43 Single Rune

Posted this over on Gunboards, and MrFarb vetted it over there as a legit example. So posting here as a reference.

https://www.gunboards.com/threads/bnz-43-single-rune-k98k.1179928/

Single Rune SS Contract BNZ 43 that appears to be a “Balkan Capture” rifle, or more precisely, this rifle was acquired by Romania after the war.

Consistent with Romanian use, it wasn’t refurbed, has very little finish left (above the wood line anyway). The bore is still very nice, so perhaps it was carried a lot, but not used much.

Also consistent with the Romanian guns, it’s mostly matching except for the bolt. As noted by MrFarb, the floor plate is a replacement, and the handguard doesn't match either.

This one also has the Astrawerke receiver. The Rune looks good, the serial number and barrel code are correct for these SS contract rifles. As with most SS rifles, has no waffenampts (except on the floor plate). Very light war eagle firing proof on the receiver.

bnz 1.jpgbnz 2.jpgbnz 3.jpgbnz 4.jpgbnz 5.jpgbnz 6.jpgbnz 7.jpgbnz 8.jpgbnz 9.jpgbnz 9a.jpg
 

Attachments

  • 19F9807E-2B8E-4479-8548-C4712E52223D.jpeg
    19F9807E-2B8E-4479-8548-C4712E52223D.jpeg
    137.7 KB · Views: 16
Last edited:
For ALL bnz44 single runes reported, I MUST have photos. To be Frank, I think they are all Ukrainian boosted. I have my reasons, and this study should help clarify these misunderstood Steyr versions.

Admittedly I've not yet read the chapter that covers the single rune rifles, Mr. Farb. But when you say "boosted", should I take that to mean that the runes may have been spuriously applied to those rifles?

Richie
 
Admittedly I've not yet read the chapter that covers the single rune rifles, Mr. Farb. But when you say "boosted", should I take that to mean that the runes may have been spuriously applied to those rifles?

Richie

Yes, either the importer or the selling agent added runes to a lot of RC's at the time - if it was Steyr 43-44 it had a rune added even if it was an Army gun.
 

Military Rifle Journal
Back
Top