Third Party Press

laminate or hardwood ...

tbied2

Senior Member
well;;..,. i have received several e-mails about 41m rifle stocks in the last week. people looking for one or concerning rifles they have. and;;.. the question has come up about whether 41 m & w trials rifles originally came from the factory with a laminate stock. it seems to be the general opinion of several people that no trials rifles originally left the factory with a laminate stock. i would say that is probably correct. a company sending out trial rifles trying to win a government contract would only use the best wood then available. i believe that these 41m & w trial rifles that have laminate wood stocks were repaired later at depots & their original ( damaged ) wood was replaced then with factory supplied laminate replacement stocks. minor repairs could be patched, but not larger stuff. looking at the espeholts serial numbers, it seems that most of the laminate stocked rifles are early & mid-delivery rifles. early manufactured rifles; were frequently returned to the factory for defects. alot of those early ones seem to be lost in use & most surviving ones are of the high/later numbers. i have shown that 209 41m rifle to several people with the laminate repair section. there is no way a trials rifle originally left a factory like that. however, the repair is very good & the shape is perfect. too good to be a depot patch repair. tomorrow;;.. i will be at the ogca show and will seek other opinions. i believe that stock was factory made for depot replacement using mid-war materials & turned on a factory stock cutting machine. then put on that rifle later in a field depot,.. and, i am always open to others opinions. ...
 
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There are two sides to your theory. You suggest they would “use the best wood then available” For looks and clarity of markings walnut maybe best, and may have appealed to the old guard running the procurement programs.......BUT laminate was a technologically superior wood for the stock. It’s steomger, more weather resistant, resistant to warpage, can be made from lower grade trees.

Maybe they sent mostly walnut with a small run in laminate, as it would be worth evaluating both type of stocks...
 
Also no telling when the repair on your stock was done, it
Could have left the factory perfect and been repaired later.
 
The 12k+ 41Ms were built over 3 years and the rifles show component differences throughout. Mauser equipped them with stamped trigger guards late in production. You even showed the milled vs stamped op-rods. As Andrew said, I think they released both types for evaluation and to show manufacturing capabilities. Stamped parts, laminate stocks etc are all congruent with the direction Mauser and all the firms were going.
 
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There are several things I don't agree with you on tebied2. I believe that Laminate stocks were used on G41 (M)s from the factory and here is why.

First, I have never heard that a prototype will only use walnut stocks. Where did this originate from? And on that same thought, by 1942 with nearly 12,000 rifles made, is the G41 (M) still considered a "prototype"? I would say no. By the same logic it would seem that all AC43 G43 rifles should be Walnut.

Second, I have seen fulling matching G41 (M)s with a laminate stock with factory serial numbering. This alone seems to prove that they were used in production. And since there are no letter blocks, using the serial number alone to tracking production is not reliable. So what you view as early rifles because of a low serial number could actually be a late rifle. It would seem to me that looking at the features of the rifle are the best way to determine the time frame.

Third, if your rifle is in fact a "depot repair" then it will likely have a depot stamp on the wrist. Is there one? And why would a depot take the time to make a laminate stock for a "prototype" rifle that was rejected and discontinued? This doesn't make sense to me. And they also made hand guards to match the stock? Doubtful. Why make a new hand guard if only the stock was damaged?

When I saw your rifle, I believed it was a factory original rifle with the factory stock. At some point the wrist experienced a very bad break and it was nicely repaired. My guess is that the repair was not German depot done but instead post war. However, even if depot done, that does not prove that laminate stocks wear never from the Mauser factory.

Example of 2 factory Walnut stock numbering versus Laminate stock numbering. They look like the same style font to me. Especially the 1 and 3.
12220589_3.jpgG41 (M) 1942 (5).jpgG41 (M)  Laminate(4).JPG
 
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41m

Holy cow! .. I was at the Ohio gun collectors this weekend. I had at least thirty people look at that rifle and had just about as many opinions. I did not even know most of those people, but apparently many guest read this forum. And several forum members. I think I'm still maybe sticking with that I don't know what. E-mails, etc...

>>>> G41 m serial numbers on 1941 went from 1 to almost 2900. 1942 numbers from 1 to about 12,800; maybe a little higher. No letter suffix. Low is early..

>>>> Laminate stocks..? .. I have had several very knowledgeable collectors say no; ..but several others yes. Quite a question and I am leaning towards almost no, but,,..

>>>> The repair,... ... myself and several others looked at that several times today with loop. Sure looks like war time type glues that I have seen on other repairs. When was it done, it is really old. My opinion is German ww2. Factory or depot, still open...

>>>>In these two days , I have spoken with or e-mailed from at least 16 people that own one or more 41m's. there are a lot more out there than people realize. Most have good info, others suggestions. I am always looking for more,.... it is just a hobby.

>>>> Thanks for all your help,"...... terrill.
 
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Stock

I had the rifle/stock in hand this weekend and it looked like it was a war time stock repair to me. Just my opinion. I saw several people look at it as well.
 

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