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Thread: Unknown depot marked Dutch Model 1895 Mannlicher

  1. #1
    Senior Member Pat's Avatar
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    Default Unknown depot marked Dutch Model 1895 Mannlicher

    I generally don't post up pics of new acquisitions anymore, but I thought the markings on this one might interest some members here. This is a bring-back Dutch Model 1895 Mannlicher long rifle built by Hembrug in 1917. It was apparently acquired by the Germans and modified somewhat, but at a depot that's not yet been identified. The most obvious 'modification' is the bluing of the bolt, which has had a previous number ground off and a matching numeric sequence stamped in its place. The safety lever has also been ground down, with the matching last two numbers of the serial number stamped over the grind marks. I have another German-modified Dutch long rifle that was modified in this way (among others). My Magdeburg depot marked long rifle also has a blued bolt, so this seems like it might have been a typical German addition, much like other captured rifles we're used to seeing. There is also some pronounced grinding on the long axis of the bolt, but I have no idea why that would have been done as the Dutch didn't apply stamps in that area. There does appear to be a remnant of a '3' in that area, though. For what it's worth, the stock has a matching internally stamped serial number, and has been 'duffel cut.'

    What really seems to set this one apart is that it is marked with two different sized, eight-pointed star designs. I've seen photos of other members' K98k's that are marked with the same style and size of star, but I only recall seeing one star stamped onto those stocks. The stamps with both stars are recognizable by collectors who are acquainted with the so-called 'blue bolt Mosins,' such as this one that I posted up in this forum awhile back:
    http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread....uired-MN-91-30

    I've heard of but not seen examples from other (non-Mosin Nagant) captured weapon types with this stamp, but all that I've seen reported have both stars. It appears that all of the captured rifles with this stamp have both stars on the stock, but I don't want to draw any conclusions from that. Some suggestion has been made that this depot might be affiliated with either Krakau or Posen but I personally doubt that, based on the fact that both of those depots have their own recognizable depot stamps and stamping area idiosyncrasies that don't match this one. I think that some of that speculation centered on the fact that all of the reported examples of captured rifles with the star stamps were Soviet, either 91/30's or a reported/rumored SVT-40. This unknown depot might very well have been in the occupied east, but it's interesting that a Dutch Mannlicher made it that far away, suggesting a unit movement from west to east, perhaps.

    Pat
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    Baby Face RyanE's Avatar
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    Nice example. This is the second long rifle I've seen from this depot.

    All of the foreign rifles I've seen have the two stars on the side while most of the German rifles have one on the side and a small one on the bottom. These rifles are sometimes found with Krakau or Posen inspections also, thus the suspicion the depot was somewhere in the East.

    I have photos of the Star depot SVT40 somewhere, although it's just the stock. Rest of the gun doesn't match.

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  3. #3
    Community Organizer Hambone's Avatar
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    The German rifles I have with this are Posen, one bearing this star and "Psn". It bears all the hallmarks of Posen as well. The only other explanation for the connection could be "double rework" which it could be also. Thanks for posting it Pat.
    “Not every item of news should be published. Rather must those who control news policies endeavor to make every item of news serve a certain purpose.” - Dr. Joseph Goebbels, Reich Ministry of Public Enlightenment and Propaganda, 1933-1945

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    Senior Member 8x57IS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hambone View Post
    The German rifles I have with this are Posen, one bearing this star and "Psn". It bears all the hallmarks of Posen as well. The only other explanation for the connection could be "double rework" which it could be also. Thanks for posting it Pat.
    A friend has a SVT 40 - SL Zf G 260 (r) with "Psn" and this star.

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    Baby Face RyanE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8x57IS View Post
    A friend has a SVT 40 - SL Zf G 260 (r) with "Psn" and this star.
    Any chance we could see some pictures of it?

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    Senior Member 8x57IS's Avatar
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    The next time I visit him, I will take some photos.

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    Senior Member Pat's Avatar
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    Very interesting, thanks for the informative replies.

    It sounds like the evidence is leaning towards Posen, then. I wonder what would make one rifle get the 'Psn' stamp, but others would only get the star(s)?
    For My Fallen Brothers:
    WW 2001
    WS 2004
    MD 2009
    JH 2009
    ER 2009
    DS 2009
    DN 2009
    WB 2014

    Never Forgotten.

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