Third Party Press

ar 43

F

Fred Luehrs

Member
Hello Everyone,

I am new to the forum and have had a few friends tell me this is the only place to go regarding questions on the K98 so hopefully you can help.

I came across a K98 at a show that was being sold as an all matching gun with Luftwaffe markings on it. I liked what I saw and put some money down on the gun to hold it until further inspection. I know the person selling it and have done buisness with him professionally. After reading a bit about the manufacturer I am questioning if there was any K98's issued to the Luftwaffe in 1943? also both the upper and lower bands on this gun are stamped and I think they should be milled??
 
Kammerjaeger said:
Do you have any photos?


KJ
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Some bad photos
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I'm far from an expert, but just based on the photos, which certainly lack anything really worthwhile, I don't like it.

And it could very well be legit, but the photo with the top of the receiver, is there an "x" to the left of the date?
 
Fred for one the Eagles don't even look right they almost look cartoony. And two they don't even match the wear on the stock as well. They almost look like they were applied yesterday, it just so happens they were probably!

Just curious what the asking price was?

I'm betting this rifle was a restored Sporter with a mismatched stock. But putting luftwaffe markings and stamps on a rifle increase its value dramatically. I'm glad to see you were brought here before you made a mistake.
 
Kammerjaeger said:
Stock stamps are bad, very bad. As in, faked by a lying scoundrel.


KJ
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I knew something was funny. He got all nervous and backed out of the deal when I asked if I could have the gun to look at for a couple days while he held my $$$.

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A true ar43 to my knowledge had unmarked stock externals. Even the ar marking on the receiver looks tampered with. Those stock marking have been done recently, I have YET to see a laminated stock after 70 years with markings that fresh, ever.
 
Fred Luehrs said:
...But how can you tell? Because they didn't mark in 43?


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1) Notice how the stock has wear and shows signs of being refinished/sanded, yet the stock markings are deep and sharp? That is because they were added after the fact. Way after. You would expect original stock markings to show wear along with the stock.

2) Wrong Waffenamt for that manufacturer. Mauser Borsigwalde (ar) did not use eagle/63.

3) The Germans were not still stamping L's into 98k stocks to denote Luftwaffe in 1943.

4) This one goes with the previous three, but every manufacturer had a way that they marked the stocks (or a couple) for every year. Stacked markings like you see stamped on this rifle were not done at Mauser Borsigwalde in 1943. As stated by ML, Mauser Borsigwalde typically used almost no external stock markings in 1943.

Check the picture reference section in order to compare any prospective purchase to known good examples. I still do this all the time.

Here's an example for comparison:

http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?22481-Dualing-codes
 
Warrior1354 said:
Fred for one the Eagles don't even look right they almost look cartoony. And two they don't even match the wear on the stock as well. They almost look like they were applied yesterday, it just so happens they were probably!

Just curious what the asking price was?

I'm betting this rifle was a restored Sporter with a mismatched stock. But putting luftwaffe markings and stamps on a rifle increase its value dramatically. I'm glad to see you were brought here before you made a mistake.
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He was asking 2200 I got him down to 1500 quickly which was the first red flag. It was to good to be true. The wear on the barrel didn't match the rest of the gun. And no sight hood. So many red flags. He will find some other poor soul. At the very least it has sparked my interest in the history of the k98 and made me realize how much there really is to know about these guns that you could miss at one glance with two minutes at a gun show when it's all cable tied shut. The gut never lies.

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From the Karabiner 98k Vol II books, "by March of 1942, there were no external inspection stamps or rifle serial number present on the stocks of Mauser Berlin manufactured K98ks". Besides, WaA26 was the stamp that would have been used had they continued using external markings.
 
Fred Luehrs said:
He was asking 2200 I got him down to 1500 quickly which was the first red flag. It was to good to be true. The wear on the barrel didn't match the rest of the gun. And no sight hood. So many red flags. He will find some other poor soul. At the very least it has sparked my interest in the history of the k98 and made me realize how much there really is to know about these guns that you could miss at one glance with two minutes at a gun show when it's all cable tied shut. The gut never lies.

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"At the very least it has sparked my interest in the history of the K98" That is what it is all about, the heart of the forum, I am glad that you forestalled the attempts this low life made to profit from your interest. Welcome to the forum and if you stay with the folks on this site you can't go wrong. As a new collector myself, I can attest to the learning that can be had by listening to the experts here who are knowledgeable and genuinely good people. Also considering adding the "Karabiner 98k" series by Karem and Steves and Backbone of the Wehrmacht (some errors, but still good) to your reading list. There are others, but these books will give you all the detail that you can ask for and benefit you tremendously.
 
bowietx said:
"At the very least it has sparked my interest in the history of the K98" That is what it is all about, the heart of the forum, I am glad that you forestalled the attempts this low life made to profit from your interest. Welcome to the forum and if you stay with the folks on this site you can't go wrong. As a new collector myself, I can attest to the learning that can be had by listening to the experts here who are knowledgeable and genuinely good people. Also considering adding the "Karabiner 98k" series by Karem and Steves and Backbone of the Wehrmacht (some errors, but still good) to your reading list. There are others, but these books will give you all the detail that you can ask for and benefit you tremendously.
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Thanks again to all you guys. Truly grateful for this resource. How awesome is it catching someone in a scam. I am ordering Karibiner 98k immediately. I borrowed Backbone of the Wehrmacht from a friend and that's where this all started. Now I need to find a good representation of the K98k for my collection somewhere. They are hard to find in these parts. Sorry for the bad pictures they are what was sent to me. Fuzzy and Far on purpose??? Here are a couple more pictures. Anyone with something descent please contact me.
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It bugs me that people take such crappy photos when trying to sell an old firearm such as a K98.... on a rifle like this, crisp, clear, photos in good lighting of every part are essential. Plus it's 2018, photos like those shouldn't exist, just saying.... Most of it is laziness, but there could be some "covering up" so to speak. Not to toot my own horn, but I feel like I take great clear photos just with my Samsung cell phone ;-)
 
Fred Luehrs said:
He was asking 2200 I got him down to 1500 quickly which was the first red flag. It was to good to be true. The wear on the barrel didn't match the rest of the gun. And no sight hood. So many red flags. He will find some other poor soul. At the very least it has sparked my interest in the history of the k98 and made me realize how much there really is to know about these guns that you could miss at one glance with two minutes at a gun show when it's all cable tied shut. The gut never lies.

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Ha alot of money for a fake rifle with problems. And someone doing a $700 decrease on their asking price would also make me wonder as well. And Pisgah brought up some good facts about what your rifle should be in the year of 1943. I forget too mention the Germans were not marking rifles for the Luftwaffe in 1943. Should have brought that up as well. But like I stated when new collectors see an L mark on a stock and have some basic knowledge of what that is. They might think its real and they bring more money too the table too get the item. Have too say $1500 would have been a bad lose on a rifle like this.
 
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