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Chance to Buy 1939 Depot Build on BSW - Advice?

GS455

GS455

Well-known member
Hey folks , Been over on the Gunboards for years. I've been directed over here for better/more advice

I have a several non-German Mausers but I have always wanted a nice German/Nazi era specimen with machined (not stamped) hardware.

Available for me is an 1939 depot build on a BSW . I don't have many details but told the fellow I would consult a friend and get back to him if I had any questions. I don't think I'll get great pics in advance of being able to look at it next weekend. What he says :

"A rare WWII K98 produced at a Luftwaffe depot using a BSW receiver. All matching except the bolt but the bolt matches itself. Clean, good shape, very nice condition. Asking $895"

Well? High $ ? Low $ ? What questions should I ask? I may be able to ask for a specific pic or two.

Someone on Gunboards said there was a picture area here that might show examples of the rifle I'll be evaluating.

Thanks in advance.
 
With something like a depot build, we 100% need pictures to figure out what's going on. If it is legit and in good shape, boot mismatch, $800 is probably a good price. But absent pics not much can be said.
 
Hello and welcome GS. We really need pics. I have one of those. Several of the guys here have them. They were Luftamt rifles built in late 1941-42 during rifle shortages from spare and unused receivers (e block) including Gew.98 receivers (ee block evidently). They are of spare and armorer parts. They are consistent in assembly and are identifiable and can be authenticated by those familiar with them, as the regulars here all. However, explaining all that is tough. Do a search here for "bsw 1939". Here is our reference section:
http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?45-Picture-Reference-Index
 
I'm asking for pics of serial numbers and proof marks but I may not get em. I may only be able to see it in person next weekend . At that point, with an uneducated eye, I may be in a position to make a decision on the spot.

This is a guy claims to have a massive German Mauser collection that's just selling em off a couple/few at a time twice a year at a specific gun show. Says his kids have no interest in his collection, he's getting old and is retired, so he's just off'ing them as convenient to him. When I first stumbled upon him I met some collector/resellers that bought all he had off the table at the end of the show and they said you can 100% trust what this guy says about his guns.

Seems like a well to do business exec type. Says his guns are all in storage. I have a feeling he's not about "humping" guns into something they are not. Course . . . . ya never know.
 
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GS455 said:
How bout this. Since I'm probably not going to get pics in advance what should I look for? Is there a crash course in this variant I can glean?

Best info so far ..........

BSW
BSW 1938 1182- http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?29449-1938-bSw
BSW 1938 1662- http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread....28-My-BSW-1938
BSW 1938 b- http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread....8-late-b-block
BSW 1939- http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread....W-Rust-Removed
Click to expand...



You might want to check further down in the picture reference under the Depot Built and other oddities section. As stated, the rifle probably wont closely follow the bsw examples since only the receiver might be that.
 
^^ Right. The majority seen are on bcd41 used receivers in the pic references but it will give you an idea of how one should look if you mentally take the bSw 1939 code out of your forethought. Stock type, metal parts used. May be all kinds of codes, years of parts used but serial umbers should all match. And pay close attention to the style and fonts of the serial numbers and if they look recently done.
 
The Luftamt builds come in a number of receiver variations, most are BSW/39's (ordnance spare receivers, rifles not made by BSW), second most commonly encountered are recycled G98 receivers (though serialed last, so probably last made were recycled G98 receivers, probably rifles scrapped by the LW, who probably had a large store of these obsolete rifles.. most of these are "ee" suffix rifles, basically when the LW ordnance system ran out of e-block serials, they rolled over to "ee"); the Walther ordnance spares (e/359) are next most common, followed by a hodgepodge of recycled 98k receivers (scrapped rifles) and new Astrawerke bcd/41 marked receivers. This variation is not rare in the least, there are a lot known, over 50 recorded, 24 of which are BSW receivers... condition is the primary factor here, mismatchers are not worth buying really, upper grades are worth a stretch, but quite a few nice rifles are known, they are not rare unless totally original-matching.

As for what to look for, regarding the BSW receiver variation, the RR should have the "C" and one acceptance stamp, the FP should be Luftamts on both barrel (most of which are Geco's) and receiver, serialed identically, - these two things are not important because fraud is most likely found among the components, not the barreled receiver. The main thing to look for is the stock and bolt, the bolt should be serialed to the receiver in a similar style of fonts, it should lack a suffix. The stock should be devoid of markings except serialed along the bottom buttstock and the buttplate, neither with serial suffix. Parts throughout should be ordnance spare, typically a mix of makers, or leftover salvaged parts, Imperial era is common enough. All parts generally follow normal production in regards to how they are serialed, - but be very suspicious, full matchers are rare, and with any ordnance build or rework it is easier to "cheat" or fudge a few parts to pass for good. This is why no one likes to authenticate a depot gun, they were made under looser standards and with more variation, they were made individually and each can have unique characteristic, often characteristics difficult to differentiate from a humper with some skill and knowledge.

How someone dresses or comes across with claims of knowledge or large collection are meaningless. Some of the stupidest, most ill-informed collectors I have met own a lot of rifles, - many simply do not keep up with current knowledge and many operate on what we worked off in the 1980's. Do not trust someone because they wear a suit and tie, most of the biggest crooks in the country wear both (politicians, lawyers & bankers; better off trusting a used car dealer...).
 
Loewe said:
The Luftamt builds come in a number of receiver variations, most are BSW/39's (ordnance spare receivers, rifles not made by BSW), second most commonly encountered are recycled G98 receivers (though serialed last, so probably last made were recycled G98 receivers, probably rifles scrapped by the LW, who probably had a large store of these obsolete rifles.. most of these are "ee" suffix rifles, basically when the LW ordnance system ran out of e-block serials, they rolled over to "ee"); the Walther ordnance spares (e/359) are next most common, followed by a hodgepodge of recycled 98k receivers (scrapped rifles) and new Astrawerke bcd/41 marked receivers. This variation is not rare in the least, there are a lot known, over 50 recorded, 24 of which are BSW receivers... condition is the primary factor here, mismatchers are not worth buying really, upper grades are worth a stretch, but quite a few nice rifles are known, they are not rare unless totally original-matching.

As for what to look for, regarding the BSW receiver variation, the RR should have the "C" and one acceptance stamp, the FP should be Luftamts on both barrel (most of which are Geco's) and receiver, serialed identically, - these two things are not important because fraud is most likely found among the components, not the barreled receiver. The main thing to look for is the stock and bolt, the bolt should be serialed to the receiver in a similar style of fonts, it should lack a suffix. The stock should be devoid of markings except serialed along the bottom buttstock and the buttplate, neither with serial suffix. Parts throughout should be ordnance spare, typically a mix of makers, or leftover salvaged parts, Imperial era is common enough. All parts generally follow normal production in regards to how they are serialed, - but be very suspicious, full matchers are rare, and with any ordnance build or rework it is easier to "cheat" or fudge a few parts to pass for good. This is why no one likes to authenticate a depot gun, they were made under looser standards and with more variation, they were made individually and each can have unique characteristic, often characteristics difficult to differentiate from a humper with some skill and knowledge.

How someone dresses or comes across with claims of knowledge or large collection are meaningless. Some of the stupidest, most ill-informed collectors I have met own a lot of rifles, - many simply do not keep up with current knowledge and many operate on what we worked off in the 1980's. Do not trust someone because they wear a suit and tie, most of the biggest crooks in the country wear both (politicians, lawyers & bankers; better off trusting a used car dealer...).
Click to expand...

Wow. Given I am admittedly unknowledgeable here. Sounds like I better just walk from this thing w/o even looking at it. But I ABSOLUTELY appreciate all this info.
 
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droulz, excellent example. We really need to document this one for the pic reference. This will give GS455 a good reference to use. By the way GS455..... Saturn Yellow or Appollo White?
 
mowzerluvr said:
droulz, excellent example. We really need to document this one for the pic reference. This will give GS455 a good reference to use. By the way GS455..... Saturn Yellow or Appollo White?
Click to expand...

I agree, this gun probably needs it own thread with like 30 pics....
 
mowzerluvr said:
droulz, excellent example. We really need to document this one for the pic reference. This will give GS455 a good reference to use. By the way GS455..... Saturn Yellow or Appollo White?
Click to expand...

The GS? Was a 1970 medium/dark brown, white split bench interior with white convertible top. Regrettably after fist registering it in 1987 I sold it last year. Now that I'm older and could actually afford the frame-off restoration it required (and deserved) I simply lost heart in it. I would sure like to find an already restored 1970 GS Riviera with a 455. More my speed now that I'm in my 50s LOL.

Terrific pictures droulz . I'm going to print those out and take them with me tomorrow as well as others listed on the depot build picture area of this forum. Did you fill in stamps with white or is that original?

New to Germans. I have NEVER seen so many serial numbers and stamps all over every part the could fit it seems. No wonder folks go nuts about collecting em (Not unlike Garands and M1 Carbines, to some degree)
 
GS455 said:
The GS? Was a 1970 medium/dark brown, white split bench interior with white convertible top. Regrettably after fist registering it in 1987 I sold it last year. Now that I'm older and could actually afford the frame-off restoration it required (and deserved) I simply lost heart in it. I would sure like to find an already restored 1970 GS Riviera with a 455. More my speed now that I'm in my 50s LOL.

Terrific pictures droulz . I'm going to print those out and take them with me tomorrow as well as others listed on the depot build picture area of this forum. Did you fill in stamps with white or is that original?

New to Germans. I have NEVER seen so many serial numbers and stamps all over every part the could fit it seems. No wonder folks go nuts about collecting em (Not unlike Garands and M1 Carbines, to some degree)
Click to expand...

Nice car, I was confusing it with the GSX that only came yellow or white. I can relate, my first car was a 69' hemi roadrunner.
 
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