Third Party Press

K98K J P SAUER UND SOHN ,SUHL, CODE 147 1940.....Fake!?!

oldcorps said:
BTW, Blue Book is more correctly known as the BLUE BOOK OF GUN VALUES by Steve Fjelstad. It is published annually and is more or less tha pricing guide for the trade. Wolf needs to read his own figures.
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Back in the day when I was setting up, the savvy table dealers knew when to pull that book out and when to leave it alone. I've done a couple formal appraisals for estates (as a favor) and found that book to be accurate about 1/3 of the time and all over the place for everything else.
 
Thanks HAM BONE and the rest for your input good solid advice much appreciated. I wish I have found you guys a lot sooner. I made a mistake and I feel bloody stupid.
I contacted wolf about this and he said he is shocked believes is is all original so I don’t know if he is kidding himself!?! Or the fact that he has No idea! But I tell you this I won’t be buying from him again. Anything that is of value I will come to the professionals... here.
I have ask for some compensation... but I don’t think it will ever Eventuate wait to anything.


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Volks said:
Thanks HAM BONE and the rest for your input good solid advice much appreciated. I wish I have found you guys a lot sooner. I made a mistake and I feel bloody stupid.
I contacted wolf about this and he said he is shocked believes is is all original so I don’t know if he is kidding himself!?! Or the fact that he has No idea! But I tell you this I won’t be buying from him again. Anything that is of value I will come to the professionals... here.
I have ask for some compensation... but I don’t think it will ever Eventuate wait to anything.


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If OldCorps is right, and he is the source for 98k pricing in the Blue Book, I'd call back and ask him to reconcile the fact that he says a 98% 1940 Sauer is worth $2k, yet he priced this at double the price...

Look, sounds to me like he is just doing the flim flam...
 
Volks, you won't find a more helpful and knowledgeable group on the planet than the guys here. We're international and we vet each other. Glad you're here and sorry we couldn't help sooner. That said, the positive is that it probably is not a complete humpjob, as the indications are that it is a legitimate rework. I'd be happy to own a legit rework like that. So, it's not like you could be stuck with an albatross. However, the dealer should be required to refund down to an agreeable amount and you should insist upon it. If he does not, he should not be regarded well here, IMHO. While not as "not right" as if it was a complete humper, it's still not right.
 
I will be insisting for a agreed amount For a refund.
What would this rifle honestly be worth?


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Volks said:
I will be insisting for a agreed amount For a refund.
What would this rifle honestly be worth?


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It depends if it is a legit re-work....look on the wrist of the stock for the depot rework mark, it would be a small WaA like Eagle with letters under it...take good detail shots of any and all marks on the stock...that will typically tell the tale, also other good close ups of pretty much every mark you can, and it can all be deciphered, good or bad.
 
It appears that that the piece was misrepresented in order to command a premium price and this alone, is a deal breaker. Even if it is a legitimate re-work that's not what was claimed by an experienced dealer who should have known better. In our organization, if an item is revealed to be not as described within thirty days of the sale a full refund is required.
 
oldcorps said:
It appears that that the piece was misrepresented in order to command a premium price and this alone, is a deal breaker. Even if it is a legitimate re-work that's not what was claimed by an experienced dealer who should have known better. In our organization, if an item is revealed to be not as described within thirty days of the sale a full refund is required.
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It’s definitely passed 30days pal I’m just hoping WOLF VON has the decency to accept an agreeable amount! I haven’t heard back from him since I ask for a part refund and that was yesterday. Probably tell me it’s my lose.


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Hambone said:
Volks, if you collect anything that has value it is humped. Best case is the rifle is an original rework as it appears to be from the pics. If it is, it appears to be a Spandau which invariably bear the Su 27 inspect on the wrist or maybe Su 4, which is also usually found on the side of the butt, very small. An in hand or better detailed pics would show this. Backbone has fakes in it, too many, and bad info. Your best source of information is Bruce and Mike's book and this site. The guys here will look out for you, help, and the information is vetted and discussed in an incensored environment. The rifle is not $4k. If described as factory original the seller either was ignorant or engaged in fraud. If it is a legit rework it is worth something to collectors of those.
Kind regards,
HB
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So I taken the JP apart carefully and I didn’t find to much but maybe I’m not seeing it below are some pictures but I didn’t find anything with SU 4 or 27 on stock just the 2119 on under side with an waffen amp.
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The inconsistencies contained in Blue Book are well known but it's still the only more or less reliable price guide in the trade. Anyone doubting that Wolf is the source of 98K retail values only has to turn to that page and look.

In terms of resolution, this is a situation in which time is a significant factor. Not being an attorney knowledgeable in foreign trade, I can only say that in similar situations I have simply filed a consumer fraud complaint with the state in which the business was located. In the case of a dishonest dealer in Ohio, I learned that state law there automatically provided the victim with reimbursement for attorney's fees and hefty punitive damages. Once the miscreant became aware of this I received a prompt refund. Had it been my $4K spent on a misrepresented firearm, I would have been on it immediately. At this point, I can only ask what is Wolf's response?

Judging from the pix, Wolf made a home run on this Mauser at $4K.
 
Volks, the handguard should be numbered internally, and it looks like it is. So too should the buttstock, and on the exterior under the inspections, if it was not replaced in the rework. It looks like the barrel was, the back end of the bolt, the floorplate and band(s). That's odd. I attribute the work to Spandau (Su) and while the lack of Su inspect is of concern, I have a couple legit reworks that look like Su but are not so inspected. In any event, you need a refund of no less than $2500 in my opinion.
 
oldcorps said:
The inconsistencies contained in Blue Book are well known but it's still the only more or less reliable price guide in the trade. Anyone doubting that Wolf is the source of 98K retail values only has to turn to that page and look.

In terms of resolution, this is a situation in which time is a significant factor. Not being an attorney knowledgeable in foreign trade, I can only say that in similar situations I have simply filed a consumer fraud complaint with the state in which the business was located. In the case of a dishonest dealer in Ohio, I learned that state law there automatically provided the victim with reimbursement for attorney's fees and hefty punitive damages. Once the miscreant became aware of this I received a prompt refund. Had it been my $4K spent on a misrepresented firearm, I would have been on it immediately. At this point, I can only ask what is Wolf's response?

Judging from the pix, Wolf made a home run on this Mauser at $4K.
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I don’t want to say wolf is all at fault here and ruin his business and reputation but looking at his other items they all seem very high in price more so over priced.
Also I have learnt from this and I’m now more knowledgeable and will buy the books from here and learn more instead of thinking that if it’s in a book, it’s got to be good. This shows my lack of knowledge and you really can’t go by ones word.
But for wolf to be make things right I would hope he meets me in the middle and refunds me some of my money back or sends me a something of similar value:) if he doesn’t I will be posting something of a warning with wolf and his so call greedy shady business but hopefully it won’t get to that.

I’ll say it again thanks you to all for your help and time to reply and help me understand. I’m glad to be apart of such a knowledgeable band of mauser collectors


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Volks said:
Also I have learnt from this and I’m now more knowledgeable and will buy the books from here and learn more instead of thinking that if it’s in a book, it’s got to be good. This shows my lack of knowledge and you really can’t go by ones word.
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Unfortunately, that is a now well known issue with Backbone....at the time there wasn't really much of an internet, not like we have today, and Law depended heavily on a single collection of 98k's.

And what was known then was miniscule to what is known now about 98k's and their production.

There is more than one "bad" rifle in the book, so while now no one will disagree it was a phenomenal first attempt at a 98k reference, and it has a lot of good points, you can't get too wrapped up in the data sheets, or the pictured rifles as to whats "right" and whats not...

If you recognize the issues, and understand them, its still a great book to have in the library to be sure.

Good luck in your attempt to make this right, I hope this guy comes through for you, if he is a solid guy, he will. Just in it for a buck, not so much....I am in the DFW area, I'll have to see if he has a store front....
 
If he doesn't come through and make it right, this whole community will be aware of it.
 
Hi all this post is from a few weeks ago just an update on my progress with wolf von baumbach from DFWARMS.com he keeps coming back to me saying he is waiting on the correct paper work from god only knows who!?! I asking for compensation or buy the rifle back from me! he asked for how much? I said for the exact price you sold it to me. Basically he won’t not until he he gets conformation from who ever he is contact with or it’s just a lie tactic for me to give up.

I feel this guy is not honest and I strongly urge people to stay clear of him because he is not an honest person.


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That's really disappointing.

I suspect he'll have to accommodate you in some fashion, or else continue to be pilloried here.

I remember seeing that ad; it's not one that's easy to forget.
 
pzjgr said:
If OldCorps is right, and he is the source for 98k pricing in the Blue Book, I'd call back and ask him to reconcile the fact that he says a 98% 1940 Sauer is worth $2k, yet he priced this at double the price...

Look, sounds to me like he is just doing the flim flam...
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I would also send an email to the BLUE BOOK OF GUN VALUES by Steve Fjelstad and let them know about their K98 expert.
Wolf most certainly needs to make good on this deal.
 
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