Third Party Press

K98K J P SAUER UND SOHN ,SUHL, CODE 147 1940.....Fake!?!

Volks

Member
Hi I’m hoping I can get some professional advice my J P SAUER 1940 rifle that I picked up a few years ago.
The reason I’m now confused is concerned is that I person has told me the this rifle does not make sense in its serial numbers they are all matching but apparently it lacks the amount of serial numbering required for the time of the production of this rifle apparently JP SAUER were very fussy with their serial numbering!

This rifle is featured in the book Backbone of the Wehrmacht collectors grade. Not that it means much but I’m totally shocked and disappointed if it is so.

Below are some pictures of the Rifle and a message sent to me from the person.
Your thoughts and opinion would be much appreciated if you need more photos please let me know.


Alan
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Those are not factory original parts. However, it looks like it is a legit rework and not a humpjob. The lack of a barrel serial indicates that it has a replaced barrel. The .02 replacement barrel mark indicates rebarrel. Look on the wrist for depot markings.
regards,
HB
 
I think I see the .02 replacement barrel mark which would indicate this. Look on the wrist for depot markings.
regards,
HB

There's a 0.2 next to the 7.91 on the barrel shank, so it's a replacement. Factory original 1940 JP Sauer should have a serial on the barrel also in addition to the firing proof. Here's a pic from my 147 1940 JP Sauer rifle. Seeing as your doesn't have the barrel serial and a larger firing proof on the barrel, this confirms it's a replacement. This one is probably a depot rework, so the waffenamts on the parts aren't all going to be JP Sauer. Looks like the bolt was also rebuilt as the cocking piece looks like a Gustloff subcontracted part.
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Dam it, I shafted. I bought it from www.dfwarms.com for $4000 something so Iv definitely been ripped! How much would this really be worth?
I’m quite turned off with the whole collecting as you just don’t know with people but I should have asked around before buying. Thanks for all your help.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Dam it, I shafted. I bought it from www.dfwarms.com for $4000 something so Iv definitely been ripped! How much would this really be worth?
I’m quite turned off with the whole collecting as you just don’t know with people but I should have asked around before buying. Thanks for all your help.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think there's a little bit of a miscommunication here. A rework is commonly known as a rifle that was damaged in one way or another and sent to a Heer (Army) depot to be rebuilt or reworked. The depots were sent spare parts from virtually every k98k manufacturers to repair the rifles that went through there. This is why there is a mix of waffenamts on various parts. In your case, it looks like the barrel was replaced with a new one, some of the bolt parts were replaced, the front band was replaced, and possibly the magazine floor plate was also replaced. This was done legitimately at a Heer facility and not by bubba in a garage. I'm no expert on pricing, but there are very few k98ks worth $4000. A couple years ago, the prices were insane, but the prices have come down a little.

If I had to bet money I'd say it's a Spandau (Su) rework.

I think you're right on that one.
 
Volks, if you collect anything that has value it is humped. Best case is the rifle is an original rework as it appears to be from the pics. If it is, it appears to be a Spandau which invariably bear the Su 27 inspect on the wrist or maybe Su 4, which is also usually found on the side of the butt, very small. An in hand or better detailed pics would show this. Backbone has fakes in it, too many, and bad info. Your best source of information is Bruce and Mike's book and this site. The guys here will look out for you, help, and the information is vetted and discussed in an incensored environment. The rifle is not $4k. If described as factory original the seller either was ignorant or engaged in fraud. If it is a legit rework it is worth something to collectors of those.
Kind regards,
HB
 
Good comments so far and as mentioned, more photos are necessary. I'm to busy to write in more detail, but take a look at this photo and please note the small "2" on the RR beside the inspection stamps.

Regards,
Stephan
 

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I know that seller and have sold to him previously. Also. he is listed as the source of the retail pricing figures on 98K's in Blue Book.
 
Good comments so far and as mentioned, more photos are necessary. I'm to busy to write in more detail, but take a look at this photo and please note the small "2" on the RR beside the inspection stamps.

Regards,
Stephan

Volks, the appropriate thing for the dealer to do, if he is reputable, would be to refund the difference between a factory original rifle and rework. From $4,000 that would be significant. For him to argue that the rifle is factory original would be ridiculous.

I guess I'm getting old Stephan, I didn't catch the "2" on the receiver. Also, on a G.33/40 rework:
 

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Given his long experience and the fact that he's considered a 98K expert, Wolf most certainly needs to make good on this deal.
 
Given his long experience and the fact that he's considered a 98K expert, Wolf most certainly needs to make good on this deal.

Not much of an expert if he couldn't spot issues with this rifle...also probably going by the "its in a book, so its worth more" logic...
 
Again, HE is the source of the 98K values listing in Blue Book so he should have known better. He also has an established reputation in the trade which he would probably like to keep and is well known in the DFW area. The Blue Book price listings make interesting reading. HIS listed value of a 98% 1940 Sauer is $2,000.
 
Again, HE is the source of the 98K values listing in Blue Book so he should have known better. He also has an established reputation in the trade which he would probably like to keep and is well known in the DFW area. The Blue Book price listings make interesting reading. HIS listed value of a 98% 1940 Sauer is $2,000.

So I'd be curious to understand valuing this one at $4k, unless its the old it was in a book price doubler...

Some guys like the allure of owning a rifle that is in a book, bit I would certainly not put a premium on it....

Just seems $4k is wildly overpriced regardless...

OP, I'd certainly contact the dealer....
 
BTW, Blue Book is more correctly known as the BLUE BOOK OF GUN VALUES by Steve Fjelstad. It is published annually and is more or less tha pricing guide for the trade. Wolf needs to read his own figures.
 
BTW, Blue Book is more correctly known as the BLUE BOOK OF GUN VALUES by Steve Fjelstad. It is published annually and is more or less tha pricing guide for the trade. Wolf needs to read his own figures.

Yeah, but the Blue Book is USUALLY wildly inaccurate when it comes to milsurps, usually wildly high or wildly low...

Although it got me a wildly under priced pre-war MAS 36 once for $100....:laugh:
 
It's a good rough gauge and I would loved to have gotten the listed prices for some guns. In the US market, there are considerable regional price fluctuations. Around here, it's typically a <$500 market but at Tulsa for example, pricey items sell quickly. 98K's were ridiculously under priced for years in that publication, which figures may have been influenced by someone intending to purchase them at far below the retail figures he was actually getting. By and large, like Flayderman's, it's still the standard of the trade.
 

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