98k Conversion of a GEW 98

98-k Short Conversion of a GEW-98 World War 1 Long Rifle

Matching except for the bolt, cleaning rod, and follower. The safety and bolt shroud are not numbered. The cocking piece is mis-matched to the bolt handle. There are intricate wood repairs around the action screw holes. The finger-groove stock has been shortened and modified for both a side-sling and a bent bolt and it has been patched where the lower sling swivel base was removed. The "Germany" marking is an early import mark.

I like it never seen an S/237 marked rear band before. Cool!

I think the S means "Spitzer" meaning this rifle could shoot, at the time, the "new" kind of ammunition. But somebody correct me if that's wrong

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The S on the barrel simply means it is S patrone compliant, which any barrel after 1903 will be, it is meaningless to our purposes and tells you nothing important to a collector. This was carried over into the early National Socialist era, this barrel was probably made in 1935 going by trends, but probably not early in 1935 as e/46 & e/49 are commonly seen earliest in production. Anyway, this "S" is typically only seen on ordnance spares, not in-house Mauser-Berlin production, - so far as I can tell anyway. It probably was applied due to the circumstances a depot may encounter.

Regarding the conversion, try to do more pictures, this rifle would have been as well served in the interwar forum as here, but as it dates to after 1933 it may be more appropriate here (though it's obvious earlier connections would have made it just as relevant in one of my sub-forums). The stock looks like it is probably original to the receiver, which is rarely seen. I would have to see more of the stock to be sure, but it is a period correct Amberg stock, its wrist acceptance will date it better to either pre-1917 or mid-1917 through 1918. The RS alone tells us little. That the serial matches is a good sign, but not assured.

Also the right receiver would be very helpful to see, as would all the stock markings and some more general pictures, like the TG-FP. Typically the Army ordnance depots weren't as prone to keeping rifle whole in the process of reworking. The SS & Navy did so out of necessity (they didn't have stores of ordnance spares), so you see a lot of keeping original parts together and salvaged parts, whereas the Army was spendthrifty on using new parts.

A BLM RB is also of interest, BLM made a lot of spare parts for the ordnance system, this is the first RB band i have seen though. Makes sense though, they made most everything else..

Awesome! This is the 2nd S/237 band I’ve seen, the first was on a total parts rifle and the guy wouldn’t trade me no matter what I tried. A while back someone on here sold a rifle with another S/237 part, I think it was an extractor.

Is there a "Crown over A" (C/A) at the wrist?

Ok, typically the wrist is where the main stock acceptance is present, but the stock is probably original. Also typical is the presence of any reworking depot acceptance here. It would help value had markings been present (things like this the more certainty the better).

Other than that true G98-98k conversions are rare, the vast majority of what inexperienced collectors categorize as a conversion are actually builds around a salvaged receiver and those are not rare in the least. Many were done over the last 20 years of German "military exceptionalism" (1924-1944); but true conversions such as yours are damn rare (if authentic). Though yours is not as rare as the ones that are the truest conversions, where an original G98 keeps all its original parts and is actually shortened (barrel & stock) to 98k specifications. I have only seen a few of the latter, but yours is damn elusive too (assuming the stock is factory original and converted, which these pictures leaves some doubts)

milgunsguy said:

I can't see any stock markings around the wrist

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stock markings at the wrist

There is a crown marking under the wrist of the stock, behind the trigger guard. It's six inches forward of the serial number stamping.

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Yes, the C/A, this means it falls in the mid-1917 through 1918 production for Amberg and is probably the original stock. While the serial on the stock means it is period original, I wanted to confirm this wrist acceptance because it is a good indicator of originality (to 1918). Amberg is perhaps the most consistent of all the makers in quality, inspection and characteristics. Possibly due to their relative isolation, both in locale and institutional (being Bavarian, - or just southern German was enough for their expression of independence from Prussian arrogance..)

I am a little perplexed by a lack of acceptance from the "converter", this much work would have probably been carried out by a higher ordnance staff and I would expect to see some form of acceptance on the stock. I would look over the entire buttstock area, all sides for any signs of a depot acceptance. It should have one, but it could be very small if this was done in the National Socialist era (Republican era acceptance is generally larger but can vary widely in location, early "nazi" era can vary but wrist is most typical - try looking on the left side of the buttstock and look closely for a small eagle over letters/numbers anywhere on the buttstock).

You have an interesting rifle, it wouldn't surprise me if this rifle was once a real-deal full conversion, shortened original stock and barrel and then subsequently re-barreled again. Though I doubt it could be proven.

I am curious about the rampant lion figure on the left receiver.

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The lion is Bavarian, - the rifle was made by Bavaria (Amberg) in 1918. Germany consisted of four semi-autonomous states, Prussia, Bavaria, Saxony and Württemberg, together their armies made up the Imperial German Army when the war began. Bavaria was perhaps the most independent and the royal family (Wittelsbach) used the lion in their crests, I assume this connection accounts for the lion fire proof.

Anyway, the lion is Bavarian, not Czech or Bohemian. The circle "Z" safety probably is Czech, but Poland used "z" acceptance too, and regardless it is at best related to the mismatched bolt and has no bearing on the rifles "German" past.

http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?17020-RESEARCH-PROJECT-Amberg-1916-1918

milgunsguy said:

Do these below-the-stock-line receiver markings mean anything translatable?

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flynaked said:

Awesome! This is the 2nd S/237 band I’ve seen, the first was on a total parts rifle and the guy wouldn’t trade me no matter what I tried. A while back someone on here sold a rifle with another S/237 part, I think it was an extractor.

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Interesting. I have an s237 marked bolt release.

What is the collector name for this variation?

Is this variation just called "98k conversion of a Gew98" or is there a catchy name for these rifles, similar to "Depot Rebuild"? (In these pictures it's shown along with a laminated stock dou.42.)

Since all the others like this one that I see on internet display are "SS" marked, they have their own name. Does this non-"SS" variation get a name?

I've been looking for other pictures of the 98k-conversion-of-a-Gew-98 and not finding much. Does anyone have a link to any pictures of non-"SS" rifles?

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Nomenclatures for these variations can vary on the collector, some are very careless with facts and assessments and others are just superficial observers who do not put a lot of thinking into their observations.

A conversion is a rifle that has been converted, literally, as in the original rifle (G98 or 98b) has been shortened and altered to 98k (or 98b), these are rather rare outside of the SS variations, and even there they are not common. These are almost always Republican era (G98-98b conversion) or early pre-war (G98-98k conversions).

A salvage or build based around a G98 receiver is very common (your depot build), these are not true conversions, they are receivers that have been salvaged (to make a 98k) from an old G98, or a leftover G98 receiver never before used (very common, especially Spandau made/marked receivers). These can be early or late, but most fall in 1941-1944, the rifle crisis through the chaotic period where the Red Army was causing a roll up of ordnance facilities in the east. Material from these ordnance shops, both from culling of skilled men to the front and the proximity to the approaching front line, caused many spare receivers from the HZa and Ordnance Staffs in the east (Krakow) to dump their receivers on Brno. This also accounts for the use of queer receivers at SDP, the shortages caused by the loss of Warsaw & Radom facilities, created a need to acquire whatever receivers could be had, - consequently, they acquired what they could from the ordnance depots (often G98 receivers) and Astrawerke.

Then there are a multitude of variations to these two, taking from both variations, sometimes a partial conversion with new parts used. I am sure little planning went into the patterns, the ordnance men probably started with what was easiest/faster/available to assemble, then resorted to more time consuming projects, it just so happens that the "conversions" (harder) came first because they date to a time where new spare parts were less common (Simson ordnance spares are seen early as "builds) and frugality ruled the day, later the builds came when there was plenty of new parts to use, the salvaged receivers falling in later as the new parts were being exhausted. The serialing pattern of the HZa builds reflect this, they started with ordnance spares from Astrawerke (bcd/41) and others, then G98's and even some Czech vz24 receivers.

True conversions are rare, there are several that have been discussed at Gunboards and here.

Loewe said:

A salvage or build based around a G98 receiver is very common (your depot build), these are not true conversions, they are receivers that have been salvaged (to make a 98k) from an old G98, or a leftover G98 receiver never before used...True conversions are rare, there are several that have been discussed at Gunboards and here.

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If my rifle was built from a salvaged receiver alone, as you suggest, would it still have Imperial proofed Gew parts numbered the same as the receiver in the final assembly?

It would if those parts were re-stamped to match at the time of re-assembly, but I have trouble seeing the serial numbers on the buttplate, stock (inside and outside there's only the same number - no old number), and the upper band, floorplate, and trigger guard as re-stamps, unlike the numbers on the lower band, handguard (1 wood picture here), and the barrel which look different, and newer. Am I seeing them wrong?

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I am not suggesting anything about your rifle, as I have not seen your rifle...

To go beyond a statement regarding the general guidelines people must see your rifle, simply posting random pictures of the components will tell us nothing. Certainly nothing specific.

I'm confused. This thread is a discussion of my rifle and it starts with a dozen pictures of that rifle and the discussion has so far been informed by your comments about it.

The thread is a year old, I have participated in hundreds of thread since then.... I will review the earlier posts and see if there is anything to add based upon your new photographs.

***You never showed a serial and you waited a year to add nearly 20 pictures (still w/o a serial)? I regret replying at all... this is a waste of time.