Third Party Press

Haenel G98m

Fal Grunt

Senior Member
Picked this up not too long ago and thought I would share with the group. Rifle is a bolt mismatch, and the stock is renumbered. All metal otherwise is matching.

I found the condition of the receiver interesting, that they salvaged the receiver given how bad the pitting is.

Interestingly the stock appears to be renumbered, but has the correct serial number in the barrel channel. I thought it was interesting that has Imperial, Weimar and Nazi stock markings. The stock was possibly replaced in WWI or during the Weimar era, it is hard to show in the picture, but the 5066 was stamped, worn thin, and restamped. Buttplate does not have any depot markings.

I have never seen the Ww Hr marking before, what is its meaning? I looked through Steves/Karem and here on the forum, but only a quick search.

My apologies some of the pictures came out fuzzy and for some reason rotated. Didn't have time to get the SLR and macro out.
 

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Next batch
 

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Next batch w/ wood markings
 

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I thought this was most interesting, mainly because I have never seen one before.
 

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I am glad you took the time to bring the rifle up for discussion, - I saw this late yesterday but didn't have the time to reply then.

The rifle is interesting, though you could show the stock better, does it have grips and are there any markings on the take down ferrule? The wrist acceptance is stamped so many times the original acceptance is indecipherable. Possibly a Danzig stock, but the acceptance under the cypher and lower are less reliable than the wrist. I guess it hardly matters though, from the looks of it this stock has lived the life of a floozy, it's been mated to a number of rifles before this receiver. None of the acceptance patterns are especially early though, no property marking I assume (left buttstock would carry the "1920" if it were in government hands early on, this alone would only indicate the stocks early status, but would help explain all the use it has seen)?

Best guess is this rifle was probably a black rifle brought out during the early rearmament phase, probably had been used in training (right wing militia / paramilitary working with the army in the east) and needed a new barrel. The rather early barrel and FP can be explained from this. The barrel is the neatest thing about the rifle, an early HZa Spandau made barrel, which means it was before 1935 probably, - because I believe Spandau worked with Spreewerke and they took over Spandau's barrel making operation. (Spreewerke in Berlin, - who seems to have worked closely with Deutsche Werke Spandau/HZa Spandau), I say this because HZa Spandau barrels seem to stop around the same time Spreewerke began in 1935, which happens to be the date Spreewerke came into being and took over former Spandau operations...). Not exactly especially relevant, but I know you are like I am regarding the industrial history behind the rifles.

I suspect the barrel was installed by HZa Spandau, probably in 1935 or so, the E/Su at the wrist a clue, then subsequently it passed through HZa Hannover (WW/Hr), a rather important HZa during this time frame. The two biggies 1923-1933 were at Spandau & Kassel (AK HQ for the Reichsheer), later Munich became important as did Hannover where an Army Acceptance Inspectorate was established (though don't ask me what they did exactly, - but sounds important doesn't it??). Later, certainly during the war, HZa Mainz (Wehrkries XII) passed it through, for what is anyone's guess.

Alternatively, it could be that this stock was on a different rifle until Mainz and that is where it was mated, - the sharp e/Mz8 and re-serial (countering stamping two or three prior serials) suggest it was just replacing the stock with a well used veteran of several ordnance repairs. If this were the case then the HZa Hannover would probably be for a different rifle and the e/Su just a coincidence with the barrel, but plausible because until 1926/27 the only reworking HZa operating were Spandau and Kassel, though Zeithain was building rifles from scraps as early as 1924, illegally of course, but the HZa's were illegal too, though the IAMCC knew about the HZa's (we know because they complained about them)

Yes, a lot of guessing involved with the rifle history, but I doubt we can be sure of a rifle with a stock that has been through so much! Typically the stock tells the story and this one has been around the block a time or two. I can only be sure of the barrel and the RR pattern suggests HZa Spandau, the counter acceptance stamps are common to Spandau work of the early rearmament phase, I think 1932-1935, which fits the period of the barrels manufacture (which was certainly not after 1935)

Lengthy - long winded - this is why I didn't reply yesterday as I didn't have half an hour or more when i saw the post.
 
HZa Spandau and Simson made these wide rearbands, all for the ordnance system, the presence alone doesn't equate to Spandau or Simson doing the work, but it is a sign of later work (early reworks will have the narrow band). These were a vast improvement over the narrow bands at this sling bearing point, - anyone who has collected these know these bands are not one of the stronger elements of the rifles design. A wider, stronger with more contact is a great improvement over the narrow bands.

I thought this was most interesting, mainly because I have never seen one before.
 
Thank you for the lengthy reply. I appreciate you taking the time to offer an in depth opinion of the rifle and I appreciate the hypothesis, a well founded hypothesis is better than my guesswork.

I was a bit surprised when I first handled the rifle that there was not a 1920 stamp, or any other "inter-period" marking explaining how it arrived in the Weimar Republic. I think the very well traveled nature of the rifle was one of the things that made me decide to purchase it. I have not previously had the opportunity to purchase a rifle with such a storied and tracked history. The SuWW 1935 stamp on the front band was unique in my opinion, being dated, as I have not seen that before. I won't say G98m's are a regular occurrence where I live, but I see at least one if not several each year, this one was by far the most interesting that I have seen.

If you would like, I will take better photo's of the stock markings as well as a few complete shots. The stock does not have grasping grooves and the take down ferrule does have a tiny mark though it is indistinguishable to my eye. If you would like I will be sure to get a good macro shot of that as well as the other markings.

As you mentioned, I do specifically appreciate the background concerning the manufacture, which reminds me I need to get some items posted up on gunboards!

Sorry I was not able to provide a longer response, I really do appreciate you taking the time to post your thoughts. Unfortunately I am out of time!
 
Yes, we are all short on time usually (or in a hurry), - reading my post yesterday it comes across a little convoluted, partially because of the complexity of the rifle but also I had to go to town and was running late.

These rifles are all rather elusive in any upper grade, most encountered are problem rifles, often with some original parts, but almost always with one problem or another. Their scarcity, especially in upper grades, has often in the past led knowledgeable collectors to believe they would be the next best thing in the field of German military rifle collecting; so far they have been wrong. For 30 years people who knew the most (about German military rifles) have thought scarcity and historical merit would carry the day, but that calculation doesn't consider the lack of interest (demand). Most people in this field have a need of association (to a war or organization - police, naval, or mass murders in the SS) to place value on a rifle variation and the interwar period doesn't cut it for most collectors. Most of this is because of ignorance, - I doubt there is a more dynamic period in German history than 1918-1935, there certainly is enough ugliness and brutality to go around.

The more i think about your rifle the more I am convinced the stock is original to this rifle from the HZa Mainz visit, which is probably early in the war and the other acceptance stamps are attributable to earlier rifles connected with this stock. We know that G98 components were not made after 1939 or so, and even then only a few barrels, so salvaging stocks was an absolute necessity unless you altered or replaced the barrel and created a 98k (which also required a new stock). I think this is the reason you see a relatively large number of G98 receivers build by ordnance depots to 98k specifications, - a lack of G98 components (though the suitability of the 98k over the G98 is obvious too... but I think depots wanted to move rifles through quickly and if that is better accomplished keeping a rifle G98 - when possible - they did, but the scarcity of G98 stocks and barrels forced them to the more complex, but desirable, 98k configuration)

I really do not need more pictures of the stock, even with more information (acceptance) there is no certainty to the original maker; only probability and it would serve little value to our understanding the rifle in its current state. It is obvious the stock served several rifles in its service life (probably in a relative short period) or the rifle was carried by the clumsiest German soldier in history, - that is a lot of visits to a depot.
 

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