Third Party Press

New g98m

samuel990

Senior Member
Bought this from a gunboards member, just need to send payment. I believe everything looks good, no sanded stock or anything. Thought it was a really cool rifle, I had never been interested in the transition rifles before. Bolt mm.
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Interesting barrel replacement and inspection markings. Also curious too hear what Paul has too say on these Interwar rifles.
 
I really never paid the interwar rifles much attention until we did Vol.1, then I went crazy on them. Each one is different, and you find some really awesome variation and history in them, they aren't just junky reworks. Knowing what I know about them, your rifle doesn't have a clear depot marking visible from these pics, but I can tell you it's 90% likely its a Königsburg depot job, the barrel firing proof is typical of them. I see a Weimar eagle on the wrist, usually with 69 or Kg under it for Königsburg. Could be another depot, but I think the odds are good for that. Here's a photo of a K98k done by them, note barrel firing proof.
 

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The rifle is good so far as shown, - actually pretty nice, but re-barreled probably (as per Jordan), the way the lot numbers show the barrel is probably post-1933 (and the right receiver qualifiers are only done on re-barrels so far as known).

The stock could be original to the rifle (factory), it follows some of the proper acceptance patterns for this range, but there is a discrepancy. I would say it is probably the factory stock, which is good as you want a rifle to be as original as possible.

Whether it is Königsberg I can't say either way, possibly, - East Prussia was probably the most conservative province in Prussia (Prussia 1918-1932 was a bastion of radical socialism... a constant source of irritation to the government, - whether under socialist Ebert or Hindenburg - the military and right wing elements. Due to its exposed nature East Prussia was the only exception... surrounded by hostile Poland the Black Reichswehr was strongest there, - even republican paramilitary cooperated in the security of EP), being isolated they would have had large stores of small arms and a rather vigorous autarkic (self-reliant) infrastructure. It is probable they had a robust ordnance system.

If you do buy it, you must take a clear picture of the wrist acceptance (actually all stock markings - like the marking or indention on the left side of the buttstock, but any marking discernible - if this stock is original to the rifle it "should" have a "1920" on the left side, a rifles whose receiver is "1920" marked would have gotten its stock marked as well, if it is absent the stock was installed after/later and is not factory original, - more on why it isn't or could be if you get more pictures...) and the barrel code, also the rear sight, these will give clues to the last time it went through an ordnance depot. I'd hate to guess the barrel maker or date, but probably not Simson. Probable this barrel is post-1933, most republican era barrels are Simson made or recycled Imperials (ordnance spares mostly), but the S28 pattern barrels are seen on Zeithain builds, as well as some police rifles. I hope the barrel is pre-1933, but I bet it is post-1933, probably JPS, but no way to tell with these pictures. I hope it is an early HZa Spandau made barrel...


Bought this from a gunboards member, just need to send payment. I believe everything looks good, no sanded stock or anything. Thought it was a really cool rifle, I had never been interested in the transition rifles before. Bolt mm.
 
Paul, the barrel proof looks very close to the Spreewerke barrel that was on my S28 s/n 9556, curious to know! Very nice rifle! I like it very much, looking forward to more pictures when available.
 
The rifle is good so far as shown, - actually pretty nice, but re-barreled probably (as per Jordan), the way the lot numbers show the barrel is probably post-1933 (and the right receiver qualifiers are only done on re-barrels so far as known).

The stock could be original to the rifle (factory), it follows some of the proper acceptance patterns for this range, but there is a discrepancy. I would say it is probably the factory stock, which is good as you want a rifle to be as original as possible.

Whether it is Königsberg I can't say either way, possibly, - East Prussia was probably the most conservative province in Prussia (Prussia 1918-1932 was a bastion of radical socialism... a constant source of irritation to the government, - whether under socialist Ebert or Hindenburg - the military and right wing elements. Due to its exposed nature East Prussia was the only exception... surrounded by hostile Poland the Black Reichswehr was strongest there, - even republican paramilitary cooperated in the security of EP), being isolated they would have had large stores of small arms and a rather vigorous autarkic (self-reliant) infrastructure. It is probable they had a robust ordnance system.

If you do buy it, you must take a clear picture of the wrist acceptance (actually all stock markings - like the marking or indention on the left side of the buttstock, but any marking discernible - if this stock is original to the rifle it "should" have a "1920" on the left side, a rifles whose receiver is "1920" marked would have gotten its stock marked as well, if it is absent the stock was installed after/later and is not factory original, - more on why it isn't or could be if you get more pictures...) and the barrel code, also the rear sight, these will give clues to the last time it went through an ordnance depot. I'd hate to guess the barrel maker or date, but probably not Simson. Probable this barrel is post-1933, most republican era barrels are Simson made or recycled Imperials (ordnance spares mostly), but the S28 pattern barrels are seen on Zeithain builds, as well as some police rifles. I hope the barrel is pre-1933, but I bet it is post-1933, probably JPS, but no way to tell with these pictures. I hope it is an early HZa Spandau made barrel...
Here is the picture he sent me of the left side of the stock...
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I do not see a 1920, but I don’t know where to look. Do you think 750$ was a fair price for this rifle?

Edit: Forgot to put picture of cartouches in original post
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9556

Yes, a good comparison, - also has the 0,1 on barrel shoulder, which is much less common than the 0,2.

There is a serious lack of information that prevents us from deciphering what actually occurred between HZa Spandau and Spreewerke, but it seems that HZa Spandau developed barrel making capability maybe as early as 1929-1931 (but probably 1931-33, - after the 98b experiments but probably in the first rearmament program, which came to being under Schleicher, - Hitler inherited the funding for the first large rearmament program) then sold or somehow transferred this to Spreewerke in 1935, which continued making rifle barrels until 1937. Spreewerke rifle barrels are rare, most are G98 length and early, only a couple 98k, the latest 1937 dated (waffenamt e/211). The earliest Spreewerke barrels carry the Spreewerke trademark, but HZa Spandau acceptance, which suggests some sort of relationship continued until 1937.

Anyway, regarding the barrels, it is little more than guessing or speculation, in a decade or more studying German military rifle barrels, I have recorded less than a dozen such barrels (M98 barrels), plus a few MG barrels which are of little value because they are all wartime production. Ken Huddle's study on machine gun barrels fits well with my time line though, the latest known Spreewerke rifle barrel is 1937, the first MG Ken has observed is 1938, so it is probable Spreewerke stopped making rifle barrels to manufacture MG barrels in 1937-1938.

I agree, this barrel could be HZa Spandau made or Spreewerke also, only the acceptance and ordnance code will tell for sure.
 

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I would say $750 is no bargain, but not a ripoff either... probably full retail. While these are generally far more elusive than almost any 98k variation, far fewer collect them and they can be hard to move unless they have something special going for them (Police/98a, RM, unit marked or super nice and matching - which is actually rare, most are at least bolt mismatchers, even more have several mismatched parts)

Not sure what that cutout is all about, but it doesn't help at all... the "1920" on the stock is very much like the receiver, in that it varies widely, they were applied by a vast array of ordnance personnel and the style is not regimented (placement is). It is also possible that not in every instance the "1920" was applied to the stock, though that is generally accepted that that is the protocol at the time. I believe the original orders translated by Görtz and Bryans state as much... but it was a hectic time and the order was carried out by individual armorers and units, not some general recall and strict setting (it had a very limited purpose and wasn't used beyond that purpose - like some of the cockamamie purposes some peddle, elaborate inspections by Entente inspectors.. which number around 100 for all of Germany across the full spectrum of compliance, - inspectors didn't go and count rifles or keep lists, most of the work was actually done by German counterparts...)

Anyway, I wouldn't pay $750 for it, but I would like to see the barrel, - so I hope you buy it, but just be aware if you need to move it it may take some doing to get $750 back out of it (imo of course)

Here is the picture he sent me of the left side of the stock...
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I do not see a 1920, but I don’t know where to look. Do you think 750$ was a fair price for this rifle?

Edit: Forgot to put picture of cartouches in original post
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I bet in hand you could make out the ordnance depot, this picture isn't clear enough to tell, but it is probably still present.
 
I bet in hand you could make out the ordnance depot, this picture isn't clear enough to tell, but it is probably still present.

Wow, thanks for all the info. Haven’t been on the forum for awhile, just saw all your posts. I will have the rifle by Friday, and will take better pictures. If its any better, the price I gave was including shipping and insurance. Thats a little better in any case. Will post more once I have it.
 

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