Third Party Press

SS Double Claw Scope

mdarnell19 said:
....... These rifles were all built over a short period of time, like 5 or 6 months, not years. .......
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It might be helpful to compare the known serial# from LSR dow scopes with SSDC scopes.
What really puzzles me is the total number of "dow" scopes produced in 1944. 6515 scopes (of both types?)
Too bad we only have the 1944 data.
Opticotechna started in January 1944 with 543 produced rifle scopes. Lowest in November with 454 scopes, and highest in October with 587.
ZF4 scopes are listed separately and there are no ZF41 scopes listed.
To me that looks like "dow" already produced that type of scope in 1943.
What are the confirmed SSDC rifles?
What are the earliest rifles for LSR "dow" scopes?

Only some thoughts.

Thanks
Wolfgang
 
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It might now be the correct time to mention that I have tried fitting WWII DOW+ DC scopes to either of my two post WWII Brünn made SSDC scopes. They did not fit due to different spacing between the two front scope claws.

Recently having tried a phosphated DOW+ DC scope without a WWII rifle number (so what some here considered a post WWII product) it seems that these fit the front bases quite precisely. There might be some minimal adjustment necessary to make a tight fitting, but this makes me quite sure the scope without a rifle number were used by Brünn on post WWII made sniper rifles.

Edit, see pictures of my two post WWII made DC sniper rifles here: http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?24429-Czech-SS(-)-Double-Claw-sniper-SWP-45
 
mrfarb said:
Who knows what the highest serial reported is? Is it in the A 3000's?
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Have: A3024 with bases. rifle# 4912, soldered rings, no focus

A2783, rifle# 7366, no focus, have to look up if soldered or spot welded, but IIRC spot welded
A408, rifle#23136C, with focus adjustment, soldered rings (train wreck!)
A448, with focus adjustment, soldered rings removed

and somewhere I have a numbered set of rings, but can't find them right now. ;-(
 

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Thank you Wolfgang. Great info and questions to consider. I'll try looking into LSR scopes.
 
mrfarb said:
...... and the double claw mount system is what they had.
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NO!
I think they neither had the scope nor the mount. Both had to be developed at the time.
There is no other scope with center adjustment nor a similar mounting system known at that time.
Only the ZF41 had the center adjustment. I can not think of any other period scope.
Prove me wrong! ;-)
Thanks
Wolfgang
 
Sorry, I meant the style, not necessarily that they had them in the parts bins. This double claw mounting system was a Czech hunting scope design from what I was shown, I have photos of the hunting mounts it was copied from.


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mrfarb said:
.... This double claw mounting system was a Czech hunting scope design from what I was shown, .....
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Mike, please try again.
I do not understand what you want to say!
Thanks
Wolfgang

PS: please keep in mind that you have some forum members from oversaes!
 
When I get home I’ll post photos and try to be more clear.


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Ok, sorry for the delay. The photo attached is what I was told is a pre-war Czech type hunting scope. This appears to be the basis for the WW2 double claw mount - if not, then I have been misled on that angle. This is the only photo I have, perhaps Dave Roberts has the rest of the photos, i think that is who sent me this when I was preparing the chapter on double claw snipers?
 

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mrfarb said:
The photo attached is what I was told is a pre-war Czech type hunting scope.
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Right, looks like a pre war SRB A STYS, PRAHA Lovec 4x scope. But might be post war as well. Need to know the serial# of the scope, and the inscription. The very same type of scope was produced under the Opticotechna logo after WWII as well.

mrfarb said:
.... This appears to be the basis for the WW2 double claw mount - if not ......
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Or the other way round.?

Somewhere I have a Lovec4x scope with military range markings (100 - 1000m) and that mount. But I doubt it is WWII assembled.
Vaughn99 might know more about the serial numbers of the Lovec 4x scopes and when these rings showed up first.

Thanks
 
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Very informative thread. Keep it coming.

I doubt I will ever have an SSDC rifle. Too rare and too expensive.

I think the DC system was flawed for military use. Every rifle needed to be hand fitted. Interchangability was not gonna happen in many cases.

I believe that they were used because it was wartime and they needed snipers, not because it was a practical system. They had a country that could make them so they used that asset. They were working toward standardization using the Zf4 and the slant back. That was the wise move and it was learned by dealing with the PU, which was std, capable and easy to produce in large amounts. JMO.
 
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mrfarb said:
Ok, sorry for the delay. The photo attached is what I was told is a pre-war Czech type hunting scope. This appears to be the basis for the WW2 double claw mount - if not, then I have been misled on that angle. This is the only photo I have, perhaps Dave Roberts has the rest of the photos, i think that is who sent me this when I was preparing the chapter on double claw snipers?
Click to expand...

Not my photo Mike , I think maybe from Vaughn99 .
 
Some thoughts:
What is the highest serial# on dow scopes with focus adjustment?
Why would the Waffen-SS (known to be very pragmatic in most cases) order/introduce a sniper scope with focus adjustment that late in the war?
Are there any other scopes known to have been produced by Opticotechna?
In late 1941 the Wiking Division complaint about the 1.5x scopes.
When did Opticotechna assemble the ZF40?
Is it possible, that the dow+ 4x scope is nothing but a huge ZF40?

:)
 
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PS:

from another Opticotechna/Brünn file, it is known that the Germans ordered another 4,000 rifle scopes (4x) in late 1944. Till February 1945 Opticotechna had 1,470 scopes already delivered and another 500 scopes were scheduled per month.

From what I was able to find out, it seems that the area around Prerau/Přerov was defended by General Schöner's Divisions till VE-Day. On May, 1st 1945 there was an uprising in Přerov that was put down by German troops.

If Opticotechna did not run out of material, they had the chance to produce their stuff till May 1945. Or even longer.
 
one more:

from two orders for 137,000 ZF4/ZFK43 scopes , Opticotechna had delivered (produced ?) 41,700 scopes till February 1945.
From my observations, the earliest ZF4 with postwar Czech military markings is in the 40,2xx range. A scope that never made it to ac/duv.
What is the latest "dow" ZF4/ZFK43 known with original mount/matching rifle?

Only some thoughts/observations from a WWI collector.

Since I do not like "war eagles" and such shi.. , I do not collect WWII sniper stuff anymore for quite a while. But I still buy that WWII sh.. sometimes, only to be a pain i. th. a.. for some very good friends. ;-)
and I still have my collection and the documents.

If you have a very close look behind the logo of that photo, you might see a SSDC.
http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?32298-period-photo-unit-id


Thanks
Wolfgang
 
Matt, is the scope in your original starting post yours? If yes, can you try and see if it would fit an original SS Double Claw sniper, or if the distance between the scope feet would be slightly incorrect for the bases?

If it isn't yours, may the owner make a very exact measuring what the distance between the feet both at the front and the rear is?
 
The separate rear ring I have, once was soldered to a scope with focus. The scope was cut into parts.
Serial# A1714
rifle# 7756
 

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mdarnell19 said:
Did the Czech Army remove the E/63 proofs when they used them?
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They usually lined out the German markings on the ZF4/ZFK43 scopes ..... and I have a SSDC front ring with the E/63 stamp obliterated, that came out of Czechoslovakia back in the 1980s.
 
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