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Thread: Interesting 98m

  1. #1
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    Default Interesting 98m

    Traded for this last week, it’s just one of those m/m Albanians but still, hard to pass with all the history! The rear sight, trigger, and follower match, everything else is a m/m. So I suppose Polish captured and then reworked to a 98m likely at Posen when the Germans rolled in?? Paul, I’m 99% positive you have this one recorded but maybe not all the barrel details, so here they are. The barrel bares a single e77 as does the rear sight leaf, S/42 ramp and e26 sight base, weird mix of parts. The trigger is crossed out and renumbered to match. The bolt is an Amberg as well, scrubbed and renumbered and Polish proofed. The stock has some interesting shrapnel damage here and there as well.

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    Pretty interesting Clay. That firing proof on the barrel is pretty unique. Maybe Magdeburg? I could be way off there. I'm sure Paul will know.
    WTB: Rough milled, blued, unnumbered floor plate as found on late MO rifles. Unnumbered MO bands, both KM and standard type, MO KM stocks including an unaccepted one, MO bands and stock 5897, upper band 0643

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    Quote Originally Posted by flynaked View Post
    ..hard to pass with all the history
    Fabryka Broni over an Imperial Crown over Amberg 1915. Pretty good stuff right off the receiver top IMHO. Add a dash of Nazi proofs. What's not to find interesting right? I'm partial since I'm a big Amberg fan anyway. Nice score even with the Albanian connection!
    "Wen Tausend einen Mann erschlagen, das ist nicht Ruhm, das ist nicht Ehre, denn beinsen wird's in späteren tagen gesiegt hat doch das Deutsch Heer. Podest nicht die Paten der Soldaten doner die da Sterben sollen, soll man geben was sie wollen, sahs sie Herzen, sahs sie Küssen, den sie wissen nicht wann sie sterben müssen"

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbmauser View Post
    That firing proof on the barrel is pretty unique. Maybe Magdeburg?
    I noticed that too but I can't place it off hand. I'm sure someone will get it soon enough. That clipped right wing is pretty unique.
    "Wen Tausend einen Mann erschlagen, das ist nicht Ruhm, das ist nicht Ehre, denn beinsen wird's in späteren tagen gesiegt hat doch das Deutsch Heer. Podest nicht die Paten der Soldaten doner die da Sterben sollen, soll man geben was sie wollen, sahs sie Herzen, sahs sie Küssen, den sie wissen nicht wann sie sterben müssen"

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    Thanks guys, yeah I have seen that proof several times now and like an idiot I probably haven’t saved the references or logged it in any way. This one had a ton of features in it I’ve always wanted, also I’m an Amberg fan as well!

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    EOD - bombs and bullets pzjgr's Avatar
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    Yeah, this one is really cool...sure its not a 100% matching piece, but its been AROUND....another one if it could only talk...

    Looking forward Paul's analysis!

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    You are 100% right in that its been recorded before, twice before, but never this thoroughly. An interesting rifle, especially since we can see it in some detail.

    I would say the likelihood is that this rifle passed through Wehrkreis Ingolstadt, which handled all Polish small arms distribution. The FP eagle is similar to other from Wehrkreis VII, though I wouldn't hang my hat upon such a statement... The similarity of the FP, which is distinctive, and the fact Ingolstadt was tasked with handling Polish small arms are two good signs, but no one that I know of tracks rifles by FP style alone. Ingolstadt also handled a lot of small arms beside Polish rifles, P08 and recycled G98's, typically we go by acceptance, not FP style.

    I am a little curious over the waffenamt e/77, possibly this rifle was re-barreled again by Ingolstadt? I mean it has the Polish FP on the RR, which is typical of Polish re-barrels, but obviously the e/77 denotes SDP acceptance of a Polish barrel, which would have found its way into the ordnance staffs and system in general. A little queer in how it is marked, but my bet is this barrel was applied by Ingolstadt with a Polish barrel supplied by SDP, maybe the original Polish barrel was damaged or undesirable. It is said in a postwar study (ordnance study) that collection and salvage of Polish arms were very complicated and much was damaged, looted or lost. The Germans apparently weren't up to their success and ordnance was just dumped and loosely guarded, often out in the open, - pretty stupid considering Polish-German relations 1918-1939 - but the Germans didn't have the transport available to properly recover and evacuate their booty.

    It is said that Germany didn't really want the Polish arms, they tried to offload them to the Chinese, but even they turned it down, which suggests condition might have played a factor (considering the crap the Germans sold the Chinese earlier). Of course this is a German rifle/receiver with a Polish barrel, but its too bad so little is written on the subject.

    Anyway, thanks for the detailed photographs! I am working on a Polish rifle article, off and on, so any such rifle is helpful!

    Quote Originally Posted by flynaked View Post
    Traded for this last week, it’s just one of those m/m Albanians but still, hard to pass with all the history! The rear sight, trigger, and follower match, everything else is a m/m. So I suppose Polish captured and then reworked to a 98m likely at Posen when the Germans rolled in?? Paul, I’m 99% positive you have this one recorded but maybe not all the barrel details, so here they are. The barrel bares a single e77 as does the rear sight leaf, S/42 ramp and e26 sight base, weird mix of parts. The trigger is crossed out and renumbered to match. The bolt is an Amberg as well, scrubbed and renumbered and Polish proofed. The stock has some interesting shrapnel damage here and there as well.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Loewe; 07-21-2018 at 01:56 PM.

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    Thank you so much Paul! Yes that is a very interesting barrel to make sense of but your interpretation seems highly likely and plausible. Fascinating to think about the circumstances and history of this collusion of parts! Thanks for the additional image too, I need to go through some old pictures and see if I saved any of that proof as they might be of help.

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