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Thread: 1917 Simson with dustcover

  1. #11
    Senior Member Wolfsburg's Avatar
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    How much are the accessories worth on their own?

    Original sling would be about 200ish? Original dustcover perhaps in the 500-700 range, give or take, from what Ive seen online?

    If that’s reasonably accurate, that’s approaching a grand in accessories. Add that to whatever refund theyre offering (hopefully at least a few hundred?), Id think you’d be in the rifle itself for a bit north of 1000?

    If that’s ballpark accurate, the question becomes: is an otherwise very nice, all matching 1917 Simson with a cracked stock worth a bit north of $1000?

  2. #12
    Moderator² Loewe's Avatar
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    This is the dilemma; upper grade Imperial rifles (with no evidence of republican or NS service) are damn difficult to find, most early war rifles were heavily used, often 1917 are the easiest, many never leaving the depots (no rifle shortage in 1918, but very few survived, most rifles the Germans kept ultimately were destroyed, well into the millions).

    This rifle is VERY late, one of the last Simson's made, only a relative few were made in 1918 and they are hens teeth.. it is extremely unlikely you will find another in this condition. 10-15 years ago I would have kept it, when i was actively buying & selling, but I specialized in Imperial rifles at the time, - Clay doesn't really strike me as an Imperial collector? So I would probably advise letting go for a casual collector as there is no getting around that wrist for anyone but a specialist (as you can see from the comments so far, it will be a lingering issue on any resale...)

    As for values, legit action covers are generally sold for between $250-500, seen them sell for less and higher than that range, but condition is everything. They bend, the warp, they pit, they rust, - though that price doesn't reflect current prices, but rather back when I was actively collecting, so 10 year or so ago. This rifle w/o a wrist crack is a $1500 rifle at least, probably more to the right buyer, but most collectors like to at least be able to shoot the rifle, whether they do or not, - and such issues will always be brought up at resale. That crack is a $500 crack imo, so the rig is probably worth about $1500, but I would still advise letting it go unless you really plan on going into Imperials and are thinking/looking into a maker type collection. In such a scenario this rifle will be fine, hard (next to impossible) to upgrade Simson's are a challenge to find. I have seen Simson's this late in upper grades, I suspect they were never issued, maybe fell to AEF at Coblenz(?), they took huge stores there after the armistice, but it is extremely hard to find an earlier Simson in anything but well used condition. Simson's generally went to the Saxon's and they used their rifles, - try finding a 1916 in this condition, can't be done imo.

    Anyway, I think the seller might be able to get $1500-2000 for this rifle at an honest auction, but its no bargain, - Simson's are rare in this condition and most collectors know it... If Clay thinks there is a possibility he might go strong into Imperials I might keep it, try to get $500 back, but if thinks its a passing curiosity, he should return it or see if Jordan wants to take the stretch...

    Quote Originally Posted by mrfarb View Post
    But, WW1 collectors don’t have as much to choose from and often overlook such issues. Probably never have another chance at a 17 Simson again.

  3. #13
    Moderator² Loewe's Avatar
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    Good analysis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfsburg View Post
    How much are the accessories worth on their own?

    Original sling would be about 200ish? Original dustcover perhaps in the 500-700 range, give or take, from what Ive seen online?

    If that’s reasonably accurate, that’s approaching a grand in accessories. Add that to whatever refund theyre offering (hopefully at least a few hundred?), Id think you’d be in the rifle itself for a bit north of 1000?

    If that’s ballpark accurate, the question becomes: is an otherwise very nice, all matching 1917 Simson with a cracked stock worth a bit north of $1000?

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loewe View Post
    Good analysis.
    Over here it is different.
    Very! nice sling: 150 - 180
    Sliding action cover: 400 - 450 (usually 350)
    Simson 1917 with cracked stock: 1,000 - 1,200 (probably less)
    Maximum!
    Thanks
    Wolfgang

  5. #15
    ax - hole Warrior1354's Avatar
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    For what it's worth I think it's a nice gun but I feel bad for Clay being this was his first all matching Gew98. The price he paid was no steal but it was a fair price in my opinion. But he was buying a rifle without problems or issues. So I believe the seller should refund a fair amount of money because something like that doesn't just slip through they should have looked at.
    "Don't use your musket if you can kill 'em with your hatchet"

    Major Robert Rogers 1757 Founder of the U.S Army Rangers

  6. #16
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    Oh Wow I am totally in love with that sling. Very nice Rifle. I am just a humble amateur here but I tend to agree with the opinions put forward. Really a dilemma as shooting it is an issue and even repaired there would be a narrow market to resell down the road. Sitting here thinking what I would do and arrived at the similar thought as many. You keep it but ask for a refund. But only if you are collecting the Imperials But.....well it's a tough decision. By the way I do also agree that the dust cover looks more of a recent addition. I popped the clip off on my 1916 Simson a while back and the marking on the wood gave a good indication of how long the cover had been on the rifle. (see Pics) Again very nice rifle and a tough decision.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #17
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    Wow that is a nice one! I knew looking at the pictures when I bought it that it was likely an add on item but man it would be to have one like that! Thanks for sharing that.

    Paul, you certainly are right, I can count on my hands the amount of imperial arms I’ve had, so definitely causal! On the other hand I can’t even tell you what I collect, so if you can figure it out please let me know as I have been trying to for years! Haha. Boy this is a tough one, and the clock is ticking. Thanks for all the input guys, it surely helped.

  8. #18
    Senior Member feldmütze's Avatar
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    imho, I'd get some refund $$$$ and keep it. Very clear proofs for beech, action cover is an add on & doesn't go well with it (sell it), sling isn't that great a shape & doesn't go well with it (sell it too). Get some CA glue , extra thin, for the crack.
    "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Only the dead have seen the end of war"

    George Santayana

  9. #19
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    Get some refund and KEEP it until you find a nicer one!
    Thanks
    Wolfgang

  10. #20
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    I kept it fellas, I agree the cover doesn’t really match/obvious add on so it will probably go. All the input is much appreciated!

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