Third Party Press

Ugh... K98 disappointment

NicolesMan

Active member
So I went to my FFL to accept transfer for this nice DOT bolt mm.

My background check was taking longer than normal. Then the shop gets a call saying the gun was flagged as possibly stolen in another state nearly 40 years ago. Local PD came and confiscated the rifle :(

Super bummed because I loved the look and condition. PD was nice about it and such but were honest that unless they can confirm it’s not the same gun etc then it would likely never be returned to me and likely destroyed. They only ran the numbers ( not the “ap”) so I would think it’s not the same gun.

Unfortunate to possibly see a historical piece destroyed.
 
Looks like Oregon State Police has their own NICS check system. The national NICS system does not ask for a SN. Interesting.

Legally the letter suffix is part of the serial number and I would be arguing that. Any ATF agent could tell the State Police that. Are you out the money?

This situation is not sitting right with me, seems very unreasonable. If it is indeed a stolen firearm, then it needs to go back to the rightful owner. Scary the state can seize property without proving that it is indeed the stolen firearm.
 
Looks like Oregon State Police has their own NICS check system. The national NICS system does not ask for a SN. Interesting.

Legally the letter suffix is part of the serial number and I would be arguing that. Any ATF agent could tell the State Police that. Are you out the money?

This situation is not sitting right with me, seems very unreasonable. If it is indeed a stolen firearm, then it needs to go back to the rightful owner. Scary the state can seize property without proving that it is indeed the stolen firearm.


I am planning to discuss the letter block being part of the serial with them. My FFL only ran the 4 digit number which could hit a number of K98s I’m sure.

But it is a bummer it was seized.

The seller is working to be helpful and will issue a refund if it isn’t sorted out but it’s a lose lose because someone is going to be out either money or a rifle.
 
Yeah, that’s bizarre to me that it would be destroyed. I would think it would go back to the last legal owner (or perhaps next of kin?). I know we’re talking about the Left coast in this case, but around here police sometimes auction off confiscated firearms. Regardless, I would think it’d be very difficult to prove it’s actually stolen, especially since they apparently didnt even run the full serial number.

If it is to be destroyed, maybe it can be stripped down and debarrelled? I mean, the parts are worth something...
 
Similar situation

I had the same situation in Maryland when I transferred a Luger I owned. It was imported and I was the first buyer. I tried to explain suffix and prefix issue to State Trooper. Told him it couldn't be stolen because I get it right off the importer.....

2 months later I had to bug them to return my pistol after the person looked at it and said it wasnt his pistol
 
Scary the state can seize property without proving that it is indeed the stolen firearm.

It's based on the idea that it is stolen property (evidence of a crime), not some malevolent seizure program. I'm sure you know that, but some guys see stuff like this and spin it off into something its not.

I agree NicholesMan, you need to push on this one and argue the letter suffix angle. Getting a local-ish ATF agent involved is not a bad idea at all. Firearm serial numbers are not like a VIN number; they don't come back to a single item at the exclusion of everything else. More often than not, prefixes and suffixes are not entered, which of course results in an inaccurate entry as you noted. Don't give up on this one, you have a solid argument and will just need to treat it like a marathon, not a sprint.


Pat
 
Yeah, that’s bizarre to me that it would be destroyed. I would think it would go back to the last legal owner (or perhaps next of kin?). I know we’re talking about the Left coast in this case, but around here police sometimes auction off confiscated firearms. Regardless, I would think it’d be very difficult to prove it’s actually stolen, especially since they apparently didnt even run the full serial number.

If it is to be destroyed, maybe it can be stripped down and debarrelled? I mean, the parts are worth something...


If it’s truly stolen I have no issue with it being returned to that owner. But what are the odds it’s actually that rifle and the owner from 40 years ago is even able to be found.
 
It has happened but I’d say the odds are very slim. In this case, with the lack of them running the serial suffix, Id say any alleged owner would have a hard time definitively proving it’s his. Serial 1234 is not the same as 1234a... Maybe the suffix has never been recorded but that’s not your fault. It is there regardless and is part of the serial.
 
It has happened but I’d say the odds are very slim. In this case, with the lack of them running the serial suffix, Id say any alleged owner would have a hard time definitively proving it’s his. Serial 1234 is not the same as 1234a... Maybe the suffix has never been recorded but that’s not your fault. It is there regardless and is part of the serial.

Basically they said it is a slim chance of me getting the rifle.

If they can determine it isn’t the rifle then maybe.

Basically any other scenario (prior owner deceased, or never getting all the info they need) then they said it would likely be deatroyed
 
Oh no!!!! Sorry this happened, that is too weird! I am glad I didn’t buy this rifle when it first popped up on gunboards now. I bought one after the fact of this kind of situation, 5 digit dot :googlie
 

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That's literally retarded... but I'm also not surprised one bit. It's what they do.

Yep, "we removed 1 more deadly weapon from the street"

The owner of my local gun store had the same thing happen many years ago when he took in a Luger, ser # without the suffix came up stolen. Took a while but he got the gun back and was able to sell it, this was many years ago when things were a bit more sane even here in CA.
 
It depends how it was listed on the original Police report as stolen. Often the owner/LE officer or clerk who enters the gun only goes by the serial number and no ID other than a Mauser rifle or if more detailed a K-98. The same happens with Lugers.
Try to get a copy of the original police report, it's public record. Or ask the command officer of the records bureau or detective bureau that has the rifle if it was listed with a model description, example BYF 44 (etc) K-98 serial number with prefix or suffix.
If it was reported as a Mauser rifle with serial number xxxx and nothing else, any Mauser rifle with the same serial number will come back as possibly stolen.
Hope that helps. I've seen this type of thing happen time and time again and it's all because of lack of complete description and info.
 
Sounds like an Unconstitutional seizure of property without due process. Where is the appeal process?

Federal law could pre-empt the locals? I would consider getting BATFE involved. Hambone and others here may have a more informed legal opinion but this smells.
 
Your first course of action is what I suggested. Ask the seller if he has any info on who he bought it from. If he does, supply it to the PD that has it. Most police departments I have dealt with, realize the value of a gun and will work with you. If the gun was put in LEIN as stolen, they have no recourse but to confiscate it. Chances are the previous owner of the Mauser that was stolen could only give the serial number as they remembered it and that's how it was entered into LEIN. Or, the guy sold you a gun that was stolen at one time.
Another thing that happens is that a gun is stolen and reported. Later recovered and given back to the owner but some one forgot to take it out of LEIN.
Exhaust everything with the local PD first and see what they will come up with if then ask ATF for their help.
Last course of action would be to file a appeal with the judge of that jurisdiction to stop it's destruction.
 
Your first course of action is what I suggested. Ask the seller if he has any info on who he bought it from. If he does, supply it to the PD that has it. Most police departments I have dealt with, realize the value of a gun and will work with you. If the gun was put in LEIN as stolen, they have no recourse but to confiscate it. Chances are the previous owner of the Mauser that was stolen could only give the serial number as they remembered it and that's how it was entered into LEIN. Or, the guy sold you a gun that was stolen at one time.
Another thing that happens is that a gun is stolen and reported. Later recovered and given back to the owner but some one forgot to take it out of LEIN.
Exhaust everything with the local PD first and see what they will come up with if then ask ATF for their help.
Last course of action would be to file a appeal with the judge of that jurisdiction to stop it's destruction.

The seller has been helpful so far. He has been attempting to contact the PD directly himself. We are both trying to express the need to include the letters In the serial number look up. Trying to get more information from the old police report from 1980 as well. Isn’t easier either that it is from Florida as well.
 
Have to wonder how the stolen arms records ID this as a "K98"? 40 years ago, knowledge of Mausers, their nomenclature, and model type were far less informed than today. Maker code & date included with the stolen arms record?

I assume a dot44 by the suffix, which by date, code, serial # is indicative of a single, unique rifle. There may be 1000's of other rifles that could be construed as a "k98" that have the same serial, sans the suffix. Kar98a, Kar98b, Kar98k, BannerK, Polish K98 et al.

IMO the onus is on the G to prove it is stolen, or return the rifle to whomever owns it.
 
IMO the onus is on the G to prove it is stolen, or return the rifle to whomever owns it.

Exactly how I feel.

I understand them "detaining" the rifle to sort all this out. But not returning it to you after an investigation makes no sense.

Is the seller an FFL? Theoretically ATF could go bound book to bound book and track the rifle. Private sales would be tough though.
 
Exactly how I feel.

I understand them "detaining" the rifle to sort all this out. But not returning it to you after an investigation makes no sense.

Is the seller an FFL? Theoretically ATF could go bound book to bound book and track the rifle. Private sales would be tough though.


He is an FFL and he has been trying to get in touch with the officer on the case.

And I agree that for sure the full serial with suffix is unique.

I told this to the officer about the numbers and indicated many rifles could have the same number but he didn’t sound convinced. But unless you collect or know these rifles it’s just “a Mauser”
 
I'm thinking of the term, "statute of limitations". Hard to believe theft of that rifle 40 years ago would still be on the books. Heck, 40 years ago theft of a firearm (at the time a low value one) was likely not even a felony yet. I could be wrong on that, as I'm not a lawyer, but something just doesn't smell good on this one.
 

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