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Duffle cut repair (pics)

Hambone

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Note: From the old Gunboards thread from 2007. All pics were regrettably lost when the site was updated. I've searched and attempted to recreate them. Resurrected thread:

Got a nice matching K98k recently that was dufflecut, never repaired. Decided to take some pics of the progress to show ya'll my method.

Supplies:

Devcon Plastic Steel (nothing better IMHO)
1/4" brass tubing (found at most hobby/model stores)
#6-32 threaded brass rod (Home Depot)
Fiebings Leather Die (dark brown)
Chestnut Ridge Dark Brown Military Rifle Stain, Hint of Red (RS Surplus)
Drill, bit 1/8" for threaded brass rods.
 

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First, remember that the saw cut removes about 1/16" to 1/8" of the wood. Something has to fill that space because if you butt the pieces up next to each other the front band and bandspring wont fit, neither will the rear band. It basically will look assed up or you'll have to grind and cut on things to make it fit. Also, lining things up is IMPORTANT!

I found that the 1/4" brass tube length fits right tight in the cleaning rod channel without any drilling and a cleaning rod will pass through it. That aligns your front end and rear end and adds alot of strength. I use ONLY brass as it doesn't rust like steel and is stronger than copper. I use the threaded brass rods because they screw into the wood somewhat and provide more surface for the Devcon. I use a 1/8" bit for the rods, which are 2 1/2" in length, which allows for about a 1/8" gap in the middle and over an inch of rod in each side.​
 

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Once the brass tube lines things up, I punch two marks for sinking the pins in the front half. I then vice the front half (I have rubber vice pads), and slooowly drill down an inch for setting the rods. I wipe the front end with white Devcon hardener (or car wax, whatever), then push it down the rod to touch the face of the main stock cut. This leaves an impression showing where the holes are on the front piece. I then punch them and drilll them out to an inch to accept the rods.

Note 1: I mark the smaller front piece first as it is thinner and you have less wood to work with than the back. Thus, you want your rods to be in the centers of the thickest sections of the front piece for the most support. MEASURE FOUR TIMES CUT ONCE.

Note 2: The main stock is viced, rubber pads, and I also put the action back in, and reassemble the bands to make sure my marks are right and everything is square.​
 

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After making sure everything fits right, I check the fit and depth of the tubing and rods by placing them in the main stock, then pressing the front piece over it. I do a dry run assembly, and put the bands back on, and handguard to make sure all is straight and even. Remember, you must leave a gap so the bands go on properly and the bandspring fits.

Then, I mix up my Devcon and set the tubing and rods in the main stock. Devcon work time is about 30-40 minutes. Once it sets, it SETS, so make sure everything fits right and you are ready. If you notice, I filed shallow notches in the brass tube to give it "bite" in the cleaning rod channel. I also removed the rod nut so as to not accidently Devcon the threads. If Devcon gets on your threads and you screw it into that nut, game over, you'll have to cut the rod out. Also note that I punched and roughed up the face of the stock on either side.

OK, so now we wait 16 hours for the Devcon to set. Note that I assembled everything AGAIN to make sure everything lines up.

ALSO, VERY IMPORTANT: CLEAN BOTH STOCK PIECES WITH RUBBING ALCOHOL AND/OR ACETONE TO REMOVE ANY GREASE OR OILS THAT WOULD INTERFERE WITH THE DEVCON BINDING.
 

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Home Depot for the threaded rods. The tubing can be found at any hobby shop where folks fly RC planes, etc. BRING YOUR CLEANING ROD WITH YOU TO THE HOBBY SHOP TO MAKE SURE IT FITS INSIDE THE BRASS TUBING.

We're a little less than halfway there. I'm letting the Devcon set completely. Next step is going to be the fitting, then Devcon of the front piece to the back, and final finishing. When I repair these I like to do so such that they look correct and can be shot, just as they were before. That's why Devcon is my choice for a bedding compound for my M1As and an adhesive. In fact, I used it for alot of home applications. Great stuff to have around and nothing else comes close that I've found. Here is Devcon info:

http://www.devcon.com/products/products.cfm?brand=Devcon&family=Plastic Steel® Putty (A)

A couple notes while we wait:
1) I kept the fine sawdust from drilling to pack on top of the Devcon. Devcon dries dark grey, but will take some stain off the Fiebings, though I've found a little original wood sawdust in there helps the stain set.
2) You want the Devcon to completely cure, 16 hours at least, before adding any stain.
3) Assemble and check, assemble and check, then assemble and check again before you set anything.​
 
OK,
I've let the Devcon set for 24 hrs. at 75 deg.+ to cure on the rods and tubing set in the main stock. I did this because I am forcing the front piece tight and I don't want the pins or tubing pushed back as I do this. The fine fitting consists of assembling everything as it is going to go, again.

Next, I mix up my next batch of Devcon, lather up the pins and tube, the main stock side and upper piece. I then place the barrelled action in, after tapping it down real close and scraping the excess Devcon.

I then assemble everything and tap the front of the bayonet lug with a plastic hammer, forcing the upper half closer to the main stock, all the while watching the bandspring lineup, bands, barrel marks.

NOTE: I PUT A GENEROUS COATING OF CAR WAX ON ANYTHING THAT COULD REMOTELY TOUCH THE DEVCON, AS A RELEASE AGENT. MISS A SPOT AND YOU'VE GOT A DEVCON STUCK TOGETHER MESS.

I also use the sawdust from the drilling for the pin holes to press into the Devcon surface. I then reassemble everything, press it together. I also assemble the triggerguard unit and screws, torquing them exactly the way they were. My purpose is not only to assemble something that looks right, but also a rifle that can be fired as it was before the dufflecut.

Now, wait another 24 hrs. for Devcon cure. I'll probably even wait 48 hrs. before applying stain. Stain penetrates and I want full cure before applying it. Stay tuned.​
 

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Final pics. You know, I could have sanded and smoothed what you see to make it blend....but I didn't. It's a dufflecut rifle and that's the mystique to me. That front piece is there to stay.​
 

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Tks Jeff. Searched my old PC backup and found some of the pics lost at GB. I just want it to be clear what this fix is as opposed to variations using glue, Gorilla Glue, other materials, etc., which is not the same as the method here. I'd recommend the rods no shorter than what is depicted and nothing other than Devcon to hold it all together. Glues cannot stand the recoil. Devcon is good stuff to have around the house anyway. Good luck and post up your project.
 
I think it is important to say that repairing duffle-cut/box-cut stocks is not something all collectors agree with, and doing so can diminish collector interest and value as far as some collectors are concerned. I thought that this should be mentioned here, in case newer collectors see this thread and think that everyone believes making this type of repair is an improvement.

IMHO, permanently repairing a behind-the-band duffle-cut on an otherwise untouched veteran bring-back rifle that is intended for collector display can reduce collector value. If you have an untouched, all-matching, duffle-cut rifle that you intend to shoot, then maybe installing a replacement shooter stock and putting the matching duffle-cut stock aside is a better way to go. I believe that making irreversible duffle cut repairs should be left for stocks/rifles that already have problems (sanded, re-stained, etc.) and are intended primarily for shooting where recoil will be an issue.

I think as the hobby progresses, "untouched" duffle-cut/box-cut rifles will command greater interest/value than irreversibly repaired duffle-cut rifles to many more collectors. If a repair has to be made on such a rifle, it ideally should be done in a way where complete reversibility is possible without affecting the pre-restoration appearance/finish. I'd like to add that when displaying a duffle-cut rifle in a collection, the strength of the repair is not a major concern and, in many cases, no repair with adhesives is even necessary.
 
Good points from mjn. I have not personally seen any difference in price between an unrepaired dufflecut and a properly repaired dufflecut. That doesn't mean there aren't. Will there be a distinct difference in price at some point? Who knows. I have a couple duffle cut rifles I've repaired in the above manner, and a couple that are completely unrepaired. The front portion of the above rifle was simply flopping about with the bands sliding and bandspring falling out. It's shooter quality repair at this point and these are firearms.

What do you guys think? Have you noticed a difference in prices commanded by an unrepaired dufflecut and properly repaired? Will there be a price difference?
 
I can see where mjn is going with his line of reasoning and would have to agree that in the future unrepaired d/c rifles could move ahead of repaired examples. I have made one reversible repair with hot hide glue and also have a d/c that my dad brought back in 1945. I put off making a repair to that one and now thinking about mjn's comments have decided not to add another layer of history to that particular rifle. Interesting posts (both). -a.
 
Aesir, he does raise good points, hence the reason two of mine are repaired, two are not. Even this repair on this thread I tweaked a bit and used the sawdust from the original drilling of the holes to press into the devcon so it is very difficult to ID as a repaired dufflecut, even taken apart.

The museum conservation rule is "do nothing which cannot be undone" but that is for conservation, not repair to damage. The dufflecut is "damage" to the integrity of the piece, but part of its "history". It's a firearm though. It's an interesting quandry to be sure. Repairing one of these so that it can be undone is not a proper repair for a firearm. However, repairing it in a proper firearm manner erases the dufflecut so that one sees one piece of buttstock instead of two. I wish I had a definitive position as I'm on the fence.
 
I wish I had a definitive position as I'm on the fence.

I avoid the whole question by not buying anything that's duffle cut. For me the rifle is ruined once its cut because its no longer 'original' as issued. I can't see the difference between a vet duffle cut and a back yard bubba job. To me the rifle's history stopped as soon as it stopped being used in service. Sorry - but that's just me..
 
Weighing in here on this topic, as another fence-sitter.

I have a GEW98 duffle-cut that I'm contemplating the repair method prescribed by Hambone above.
Its a pristine example otherwise, and as some have pointed out here, the duffle cut itself does hold some of the history of the rifle.

However, another point to made involves the original purpose for the rifle, which is to be fired.
If the duffle-cut interferes with (or even prevents) the firing or the accuracy of the firing, to me, it retracts from the value.

Take the analogy of a classic car.
If I have a 1917 Ford Model-T (if they even made them that year - I don't claim to know), and somewhere in its past, someone blew the engine and it never ran after that.
I would think the car would be much more valuable to the owner (and to future potential collector purchasers) if the engine was meticulously repaired so that the car was driveable once again, and could be enjoyed the way it was intended.
When I say meticulously, I mean with the intention of keeping to the original engineering of the engine, preserving as much as possible, while correcting the flaws.
Much like the meticulous d-c repair method that's outlined in this thread would be.

I guess its ultimately up to the owner, but I wouldn't want to own a rifle just to be hung on a wall collecting dust, any more than I'd want to own a classic car that was stuck in my garage, inoperable, just to preserve its state of disrepair for history's sake.

Again - I'm not taking sides (yet), but do want to participate in the debate, so I can make an informed decision on how to treat my rifle.

Thanks! Great Forum btw!
 

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Old cars and rifles are not perfectly analagous.

People like to drive their vintage cars at least once in a while, but most of us here do not shoot our all matching examples. Repairs can be made to a Model T without affecting the value much if at all, not so with a Mauser. You cannot replace a broken factory numbered stock.

If you want something to shoot, I strongly recommend buying a bolt or stock mismatch or something similar.
 
Weighing in here on this topic, as another fence-sitter.

I have a GEW98 duffle-cut that I'm contemplating the repair method prescribed by Hambone above.
Its a pristine example otherwise, and as some have pointed out here, the duffle cut itself does hold some of the history of the rifle.

However, another point to made involves the original purpose for the rifle, which is to be fired.
If the duffle-cut interferes with (or even prevents) the firing or the accuracy of the firing, to me, it retracts from the value.

Take the analogy of a classic car.
If I have a 1917 Ford Model-T (if they even made them that year - I don't claim to know), and somewhere in its past, someone blew the engine and it never ran after that.
I would think the car would be much more valuable to the owner (and to future potential collector purchasers) if the engine was meticulously repaired so that the car was driveable once again, and could be enjoyed the way it was intended.
When I say meticulously, I mean with the intention of keeping to the original engineering of the engine, preserving as much as possible, while correcting the flaws.
Much like the meticulous d-c repair method that's outlined in this thread would be.

I guess its ultimately up to the owner, but I wouldn't want to own a rifle just to be hung on a wall collecting dust, any more than I'd want to own a classic car that was stuck in my garage, inoperable, just to preserve its state of disrepair for history's sake.

Again - I'm not taking sides (yet), but do want to participate in the debate, so I can make an informed decision on how to treat my rifle.

Thanks! Great Forum btw!


very good analogy.
 
Another Wrinkle to Duffle Cut Repair (more pics)

First, I want to say a big Thank You to Hambone for this thread, it has been a great source of information - top notch and an inspiration! :thumbsup:

So here's the scoop. earlier this year I was finally able to purchase a very nice restoreable K98, not just any old K98 but an original bcd4 LSR from the original owner. Here's the dilemma... The original stock was duffle cut and the forward piece was lost a long time ago. The stock that remained was the original that came back with the vet with the rifle, un-sanded and beautiful for a late one. It is also a bit unique in that it is a semi-kreigsmodell that never was fitted with the bolt take down disks (according to Dave Roberts, only the second one he has ever seen).

You can see what I started with in the photos. I looked for four months for a "match" to the missing end and after buying five stocks from three countries I came to the conclusion that trying to match and fit the wood from an existing rifle was not going to happen. Forget cosmetics for the moment, if the color and wood looks right but does not fit right what do you have? The forend of any stock has been hand fitted, rasped and sanded to get the bands to fit correctly and there are too many variations and invariably one dimension will be off and fit poorly. In addition the late "C" stocks are just different enough in dimensions that earlier stocks with cleaning rod holes do not line up properly. The fitting of the brass tube for basic alignment earlier in this thread is essential and must not be overlooked when attempting to repair a stock! The brass tube is your alignment check and if any dimension or fit on the new forend is not exactly the same size or preferably LARGER than the original stock - Stop and go no further! You cannot make the forend bigger, only smaller!

So using a short piece of the 30" brass tube from my local hobby shop, I fitted the new piece and it was just dimensionally larger than the original so it could be fitted after gluing was completed. I have the following suggestion for those on this journey however, if the barrel channel sits proud above the old barrel channel in the original stock, remove the new piece, wrap some 80 grit paper around a maple dowel and sand it so that it lines up exactly with the original barrel channel BEFORE gluing. Sight down the barrel channel and it should be straight and true before gluing. Make sure your 90 deg cut on the original stock is true and that the new section fits tight with minimal seam all around when final fitting with the brass tube. These three areas, the barrel channel, butt seam and correct length are your biggest concerns before gluing! Do not try and reshape the forend or fit bands until AFTER the gluing process is complete.

Here is the one trick that I would like to add to Hambones original thread: Seeing as how you now have a long section of un-used brass tube, get yourself an old or repro beater cleaning rod and make sure the nut threads are clean and the rod screws in easily. Get two flat washers that fit closely to the cleaning rod diameter so that they will not clear the patch end. Cut a short section of brass tube and sandwich it between the washers and dry fit your new stock end by gently tightening the cleaning rod making sure it does not bottom out on the nut before you draw it up tight! Having a couple of spare washers on hand for shims is a help if you are a little short on your tube. Disassemble, wipe all parts down carefully with alcohol to remove any grease and oil, especially on the threaded rods which invariably have some cutting oil residue on them. Oil residue is not your friend when using adhesives!

Follow Hambone's gluing instructions at this point in the process. I recommend that you force the Devcon down deep into the threaded rod holes repeatedly by turning and "unscrewing" your threaded rods so it will push the glue down deep. If you have a well fitted butt joint (you did fit it exactly did'nt you?) use the Devcon sparingly in this seam or you will have a mess to deal with. Once I began pushing the glued assembly together I stopped about 1/4" from the butt joint. Use a Q-tip and wipe up any gobs of Devcon oozing out of the threaded rods or the brass tube before going further. Coat the cleaning rod with a good wipe of Ballistol and slide the the washer/tube/cleaning rod assembly down the center hole. Gently slide the butt joint together and wipe up excess Devcon. Begin slowly tightening the cleaning rod checking your alignment carefully. I used a flat screwdriver cinch it down so the joint nearly disappears. Wipe up the Devcon again!

You can put the action with barrel back in the gun if you want, however I found that a hardwood 20" rock maple dowel wrapped in some waxed paper is easier to use and allows you to really check the fit on the barrel channel when clamping it up. See photos.... Wait 24 hours before messing with it anymore!

Looking at my photos, you will see the results, once the glue has set you need only to get a fine flat rasp and true the new forend to fit the bands correctly. Go slow and fit the bands one at a time WITH the handguard in place when fitting the rear band. Once done, dry run and put it together and enjoy your handywork!

FYI... The new stock forward section was made by Leszek Foks in Poland from dimensional drawings and photographs. He makes them just a bit oversized to allow proper fitting and marks exactly where you will need to cut it for your project (check twice, cut once!). All at a cost of around $50 US shipped to your door.:hail:

So, I want to get some feedback from the members on both the process and the final results when dealing with a rifle that is missing the duffle cut end.

P.S. As far as finishing and matching the new piece to the original stock, that is a whole different subject! After weekends of trial, error and dabbling in the black arts of alchemy on some sections of original laminated red glue stocks I found the the magic I think!
 

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