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Duffle cut repair (pics)

I was told a long time ago by a collecting mentor that we are nothing more than caretakers of history and it is our job to pass these items along to the next generation. Since so many duffle cut portions have been lost it seems that one of the best ways to preserve these is to repair them. While some might see this as destroying collector value, others see it as retaining all of the original portions of the rifle. Personally I would repair the cut as taking the chance of it being lost would most assuredly devalue the piece. I recently came into a duffle cut late semi kriegs DOT marked stock. There is no provision for a cleaning rod but there is a channel cut for the band spring. Unfortunately the hand guard and end piece of the stock were lost. I don't know that I have the skill to repair the stock and may have to ask for help and send it to one of those experienced with these repair techniques. As was said it is a personal preference. Either way the rifles are still beautiful bring backs.
 
James you are speaking most of my thoughts pretty spot on. I do not want to replace anything and I would like to keep it as close to 1944 as possible while still retaining the "character" of the duffle cut. I have no intention of ever selling it so any potential collector value is secondary to the powerful sense of history that I can feel when I pick the rifle up-you know what mean? I just don't know if I am capable of doing this project myself and I absolutely cannot screw this up. I may have to get some outside help... but I hate to miss out on doing it myself.
 
Will the location of the duffle cut have any effect on this repair? Mine looks to be directly in the middle below the rear sight. Are they all cut here?
 
There was no specific place for the cut; it just had to be made in such a way that the barreled action and the stock would fit into a duffle bag. At best, it is under the band and can be repaired without the repair being seen. Anywhere else, it will be difficult to do a good repair without it being obvious. Of course, if it is a mortal sin to repair or alter a "collector" gun in any way, then no repair is possible, and it is wrong to even oil a rifle lest we remove genuine 1945 German rust.

Jim
 
More thoughts

I did not realize my first K98 had a duffle cut until I went out to shoot it and noticed the end kept working its way off when I shot it. I was disappointed in this. I was only a teenager when I got it (1980's) and had not even read any literature on collecting K98's. I also did not even realize I was getting a "bolt mismatch" at the time. I now realize that the rifle is a vet bring-back, bolt mismatch in good shape. It is a 1938 S/27. It also has a "O" number on the disk, apparently a navy mark. I also think the stock may be lightly sanded. Anyway, back to the duffle cut--when I shot it, I noticed that someone had put a piece of folded sheet brass next to the barrell to wedge the piece in to help hole it on. I did nothing to the rifle for years. Later, my dad and I aqcuired a few more K98's. My dad got a duffle cut one that was all matching except the band spring, which was missing because of the duffle cut--the whole front piece was so loose; it just kept coming off. With these experinces, I looked onto the internet a few years back and learned about duffle cuts and was under the belief that a good repair was acceptable. Anyway, my dad and I thought a repair to both of ours would be an improvement. So we did it in a similar way as Hambone (I may have read of his method several years ago). We used wood dowels instead of threaded rods. We also made the holes a little larger than the rods so that we could line up the pieces perfectly. We used small peices of wood for spacers to compensate for the saw kerf. We then used epoxy and only glued the pins in with a little extra to hold the spacers in too. To let it dry, we put the guns back together with some wax paper to keep the metal from being glued on. This allowed the wood to be perfectly aligned (or at least we think it did). The next day my dad took the guns apart and finished the job (I live out of town and did not stay over long enough to finish it). We had saved the saw dust when drilling the dowell holes and my dad mixed it in with some more epoxy and filled the gap in the cut while the stock was off the gun. The next day he put the guns together. They have been together ever since. He said the repairs were good. The guns have not been shot or even taken apart since then.

With all of that said, I still have some mixed feelings about the repairs. Part of me says it was right--they can be shot now without the ends coming off (hopefully) and the pieces will never come off and get lost just by handling. On the other hand, I can see how it is best to leave things alone. Also, my dad's gun is probably very valuable--it is all matching 42 code 1939, solid wood (not laminate) stock, sharp markings, excellent condition, with an "L" on the stock. Of course, the band spring is no longer matching; it has been replaced with an unnumbered one (I think my dad had to try two or three before he found one that fit well).

As a collector, I think we have to accept the facts: A duffle cut makes the gun not "as issued" or even "as used" by the germans. It is clearly an alteration. Timing does not matter that much--If it was drilled for a scope by a GI, that would ruin it, even if done the day it was captured, I believe. I definitely prefer vet bring backs, but if I saw two similar rifles for sale, one duffle cut, and one uncut, I would probably get the uncut for the same money. I would was also probably get a repaired duffle cut over an unrepaired duffle cut with loose parts that want to fall apart. Lastly, I saw a pawn-shop k98 for sale awhile back that was in good shape with this problem--it was duffle cut and in pieces, with some lost gone, including the the entire top piece of the stock. So, at least in my experience, duffle cuts will lead to lost parts.

With all of that said, I hesitatingly come down on the side of making the repair--I don't think you loose any value, you make the gun more shootable, and lastly, no matter what may happen to me in the future, I can assume that even in the hands of a careless person, the rifle will at least stay together.
 
The loss of unattached duffle-cut parts is an interesting point, and I too have seen a few rifles missing the front-end, and have even seen at least one front-end for sale with no rifle. I imagine that most duffle-cut rifles with missing pieces lost those parts long before a collector found the rifle (veteran’s wife did some housecleaning, the family moved a few times, the rifle was kicking around in a closet for decades, etc). Once a rifle finds its way into a collector’s hands though, I would expect that duffle-cut parts are much less likely to go missing.

Since other parts of a rifle are also easily detachable, we have no control over what might go missing in the future anyway. When in careless hands, it’s just as easy to lose a numbered bolt or a front band. I have a rifle in my collection with a duffle-cut that I have no intention of repairing, but I’m more concerned about someone in the future misplacing the matching optics.

For me personally, what a GI did in-theater has some relevance, so I generally don’t like to see those things repaired if everything else is untouched. We are all different in our ideas, but where I usually begin to consider restoration is when something was done after the rifle got back to the U.S., or the rifle had major issues in the first place like missing parts. There are always exceptions. I try to stick with untouched items so I don’t have to think about restoration, but the untouched items get harder to find as more things get repaired. That of course makes the untouched rifles more valuable to me.
 
Hi, new to the site and this is my first K98. It is a 1943 ar vet bring back that was duffel cut. I was given a link to hambone's excellent thread on his procedure to repair a duffle cut. I followed it pretty much to the letter and it worked out well. I thought I would spare you the 200 pictures I think I must have taken and tried to narrow it down to a few key photos. I did not attempt to dye the epoxy mix and while I added sawdust from my drilling to the soft epoxy when I cleaned it up I effectively removed it all. But in the end for my first attempt I think it came out pretty good. Thanks again to hambone for the well laid out and photographed steps to follow.
 

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Danke Hambone!

Thanks mate, i'll give it a go when I have time. When I do something I have t do it properly. The cut on mine appears to be pretty professional with dowel joints (Not sure if that's normal.) But the cut itself appear to be precise with a fine blade. Cheers for the link You're a legend!
 
Hi, new to the site and this is my first K98. It is a 1943 ar vet bring back that was duffel cut. I was given a link to hambone's excellent thread on his procedure to repair a duffle cut. I followed it pretty much to the letter and it worked out well. I thought I would spare you the 200 pictures I think I must have taken and tried to narrow it down to a few key photos. I did not attempt to dye the epoxy mix and while I added sawdust from my drilling to the soft epoxy when I cleaned it up I effectively removed it all. But in the end for my first attempt I think it came out pretty good. Thanks again to hambone for the well laid out and photographed steps to follow.

Well done, must have taken a while. spew it was cut on an angle like that.. My GEW98 appears to have been finely cut and already had the dowel pegs, but it slides apart when fired as it's cut not far in front of the receiver. Why these guys didn't just poke a hole in the duffel bag and tie some socks over the end has me stuffed. At least I only need decent glue to do it. They cut mine so well yet never protected it in the vice :/ I guess there were in a hurry to get home.
 

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Why these guys didn't just poke a hole in the duffel bag and tie some socks over the end has me stuffed.

Because part of the idea behind the duffle cut was to hide the fact that there was a rifle in the duffle. Some arms were authorized war souvinirs, others were smuggled home. My father (US Army, five ETO campaign stars) had a beautiful Luger packed away in his duffle when he came back to the US aboard the battleship Washington. He didn't have access to his belongings during the passage, but someone else did. Everything of any value was stolen, including the Luger and his camera.
 
Curious why wooden dowels were not used..

Wood rods of that size are not as strong as brass rods. No need to drill out more original wood than is necessary. Further, that area of the stock is small and would not accept two wooden dowels on either side to provide sufficient structural strength. See first sentence re pieces of wood of that size not being as strong as brass rods.
 
Because part of the idea behind the duffle cut was to hide the fact that there was a rifle in the duffle. Some arms were authorized war souvinirs, others were smuggled home. My father (US Army, five ETO campaign stars) had a beautiful Luger packed away in his duffle when he came back to the US aboard the battleship Washington. He didn't have access to his belongings during the passage, but someone else did. Everything of any value was stolen, including the Luger and his camera.
Well that sucks, if only he had his socks tied over the end of a Gew 98. :/. I like to say ''i'd do this n/or that'' to bring back a perfect Gew98 but no doubt I would've died in the trenches. :/
 
Wood rods of that size are not as strong as brass rods. No need to drill out more original wood than is necessary. Further, that area of the stock is small and would not accept two wooden dowels on either side to provide sufficient structural strength. See first sentence re pieces of wood of that size not being as strong as brass rods.

I'll have to take a few pics of the Aussie vet bringback job. I have my Gew 98 with me so i'll take it apart and post a few pics. Must've known a carpenter.
 
Finally uploaded pics.

First pics are my piss poor attempt at gluing it with liquid nails. Yeah lol I was that desperate and stupid. I figured that the cut being where it was it was more about support (Lasted about 12 shots before starting to come apart.) Turns out the awesome Mauser power was way too much for ''Liquid nails''. I've cleaned that crap off and i'm ready to use the decent glue. As you can see for an old repair someone knew how to cut it well with a fine blade and repaired it with Dowel joints. I never even knew it wasn't glued as first time I fired it it came apart. Which was awesome really, as I knew no one had really fired it in a Long LONG Time it's no wonder the bore is so mint. There is still a small gap as you can see. Downside is I don't have any wood shavings to mix in with the glue. But for me it's more about getting to shoot a Great 103 yr old rifle, rather than looking at it. Although I will try my hardest to make the cut unnoticeable as possible.
 

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I really hate to revive this old thread, but it is a good one.

I was wondering about the 1/4" Brass Tube for the cleaning rod hole. Would this size fit a Gewehr 41 cleaning rod channel?
 

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