Third Party Press

New to me Gewehr 88 from Empire Arms

BigShell

BigShell

Senior Member
Just getting into German small arms and I got the itch for a Commission Rifle. Since I have a lot of respect for Dennis Kroh so I jumped on this one when it was offered last week. The big brown truck dropped it off today and this is what was in the box.

Odd that the receiver is not Turk marked, no? Anything interesting about the markings? Any info on the unit marking on the front barrel band? Haven't been around these enough to judge value of original German rifles vs. their exported counterparts. According to Dennis this is the original Turkish finish after it went through re-build, and is in pretty good shape minus the blemish on the left of the receiver ring.

Any opinions on ammo selection. I am familiar with the 1905 conversion to accept the spitzer cartridge and stripper clips, which was actually a big selling point to me.

Pics off-site due to file size:
https://imgur.com/a/qf9Usdq
 
Last edited:
Handsome rifle. The 170gr RN American 8mm I have always understood to be loaded light and with undersized bullets just for the Commission Rifles. .32 Special and .32 Remington (and IIRC the 32-40) all use .321 bullets with soft jackets. This would go a long way towards explaining the 8mm Mauser's rep for terrible accuracy in the US, too.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk
 
The more reading I do it seems like the more questions I have. So the S barrels were resized to .323 (more like .325 in reality), but I have never been a reloader and probably won't anytime soon. What I am looking for is a commercially produced ammo that I can simply buy a box of and enjoy at the range without fear of an accident. Hopefully I don't seem like too much of a newbie.
 
I won't delve too much into the ammunition selection as there are as many opinions on the subject as there are collectors. Generally you need to slug the bore to be 100% on where you stand. That said, generally these Turk's with original manufacturer barrels are .321 (this barrel is Loewe made, the original factory barrel, it has Loewe's distinctive FP and acceptance, your right receiver should carry this acceptance also). The Germans did apparently use .323 barrels when they replaced barrels (re-barrels), but this is the factory barrel, so it is probably .321. Many Turk's have Czech made .318 barrels, some say the Germans made them also, this shouldn't be one, but you need to slug to know. Generally collectors say it is dangerous to shoot normal 7.92 (.323), especially hotter loads, in these .318 barrels, but many say they do it all the time (with modern US commercial 7.92/8 mm). There are hundreds of threads over the last two decades on this subject. Mag & MauserBill went on marathon forum duels regarding this subject... There are different views on the subject and the technical side (gunsmithing) of collecting is not my specialty.

All I can say here is this is the original factory barrel and you need to slug the bore to know what ammo to use, and even then opinions differ on safety. You might try to go to Gunboards Mauser and Mannlicher forums, do some reading, they probably discuss this regularly and you might get a better grasp on the subject and what to do. Also Parallax (gun forum) use to have some of the best G88 guys around, their strongest forum as the Mannlicher forum, not sure if it is still around though.

Whatever you do I wouldn't shoot it until you know what you are dealing with and that it is safe.
 
Some noteworthy technical comments

Paul: The ’88 (Loewe 1890) has two aspects in its barrel that need to be taken into consideration in handloading. First the barrel, being original, has the original skinny contour rather than the heavier contour adopted maybe along about 1892. Further, being early, this barrel was made before there was some attempt to exercise quality control over barrel steel sources. Those barrels from 92 or 93 on have indications marked on the barrel of barrel steel source (“Neues Material Krupp” is unambiguous, “NM BB” is less helpful but does suggest a coded steel source). I would stay away from any load using .323 diameter bullets and pressures above the ”moderate” range). Bob
 
As usual Loewe is spot on.....with Turk rifles most anything is possible as far as matching or not. I also have a turk 88/05 all matching but the bolt which is typical. and no crescent moon on rcvr. I had heard they replaced most all bolts with Czech made Arabic marked ones. The S mark is often mistaken to mean the bore size was increased but it only signifies the chamber neck reamed to accept larger sptizer ammo without case sticking.. Something like Lebel N marked rifles.. Accuracy is no worse or better than any other milsurp in my collection.. I use about 40 gr IMR 4064 with a Hornaday 170 gr 32 round nose .. The cases require extra crimp to hold the smaller bullet but I find it works well Not sure why they are so under appreciated as the are a lot of fun to shoot....I have 1 turk 88/05 and 3 nice (in my opinion) matching 88's Good luck !
 
Thank you all for the thoughtful replies. I plan on slugging the bore soon and hopefully finding some good ammo to try out. For now, my interest in 8mm German rifles is growing and I have a Karabiner 98a on its way to my dealer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
yep that bolt is a czech replacement and lots of pretty filler white paint looks a little too pretty !!!!!!!!!!


slug the Barrel as recommended I have a "S" receiver I still use 318 woodleigh projectiles, ( reload them weak) yah I hear guys shooting surplus in these, but my dead wish days are over.

I do not shoot my collectibles , I have only fired mine once about 15 years ago and it was about 5 rounds

my dead wish rifle was my Spanish M-43 with me shooting WW2 surplus / middle eastern surplus, now I just should mild reloaded and commercial rounds
 
A few corrections . S is not a bore size . The 05 conversion is not for the S ammo [ there are a very few original non-Turk 05 rifles with NO S stamp and a rear sight with no grinding and still sighted for P-88 ammo ] , just for the stripper clip ammo pack . The Czechs never made any .318 barrels for the Turks . The Czech's supplied several barrel types to the Turks , NOS German barrels of .321 or .323 , new made .323 barrels for 88's and .323 model 93 barrels that the Turks turned down to fit 88's . The small bore Czech made barrels when to South America and were made to the old civilian specs of .316 +/- , never to Turkey . Lowe made ALL of their Gew88's in under 14 months , very early in the production of 88's , so Yes all of their original barrels are the early .321 thin type . To answer the original question about shooting , any US made ammo with a .321 dia bullet is fine in the original barrel rifles and will shoot well . It is in the later German .323+ barrels that it does not shoot well .
 
ernie8 said:
To answer the original question about shooting , any US made ammo with a .321 dia bullet is fine in the original barrel rifles and will shoot well . It is in the later German .323+ barrels that it does not shoot well .
Click to expand...

Well that is incredibly helpful. Thank you very much. I will still slug the bore to be 100% sure, but this gives me a lot of confidence.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Warrior1354 said:
Just a quick question what is the best commercial made 8x57 ammo too use in these rifles thats made today?
Click to expand...

best American made?? I use Winchester and remington soft point hunting rounds in my spanish 98 mauser great little deer rifle and hog
 
Warrior1354 said:
I mean for the 88 commission rifles. Best commercial made ammunition on the market.
Click to expand...

I believe, though you might want to check this, that the Remington and Winchester 170 grain commercially loaded ammunition has a .321 bullet. It has been said in many forums that this ammo is good for the Gew 88, as it was "designed" by lawyers for the companies who were afraid of .323 bullet going down barrels with a weak action. I.e., the Gew 88 is not a Gew 98 when it comes to strength, and the barrels are often not .323 compatible.
If the Remington and Winchester bullets still measure .321, then that is the usually recommended commercially loaded ammo for the GEW 88.
Myself, I use lead bullets .324 in size, but that's not commercial, though they work fine for target loads.
 
Warrior1354 said:
I mean for the 88 commission rifles. Best commercial made ammunition on the market.
Click to expand...

that' is what I meant, see the post above

commercial Winchester & Remington .321 soft point, its to be used in all questionable strength actions whether its Gew 88's Chinese & Turkish 88 and 98 copies or later Spanish 98 mausers
 
I thought that's what you meant I was just double-checking. I had my 1891 commission rifle slug by my gunsmith and it came out too .321

I also do have some .318 8x57J ammo as well if needed. You can shoot .318 ammo out a .321 bore correct?

Believe it or not I remember talking to a guy that was shooting Turkish military surplus ammunition out of his commission rifle. You know the full-powered stuff that gets like three thousand feet per second!
 
Warrior1354 said:
I thought that's what you meant I was just double-checking. I had my 1891 commission rifle slug by my gunsmith and it came out too .321

I also do have some .318 8x57J ammo as well if needed. You can shoot .318 ammo out a .321 bore correct?

Believe it or not I remember talking to a guy that was shooting Turkish military surplus ammunition out of his commission rifle. You know the full-powered stuff that gets like three thousand feet per second!
Click to expand...

I do not see why not .318 vs .321 well you not going to get a lot of accuracy for match shooting but for range plinking it would work, if weak reloads

shooting Turkish / Yugo/ Romanian out of a Gew 88 equals a death or dismemberment only proves Darwin was correct
 
Turk , Yugo and Romanian ammo are three totally different 8mm loads . The 154 Turk is an exact copy of German original S ammo , ammo that was designed to be fired in the Gew-88 , and the Germans fired a ton of it in WWI with no problems . Yes it is hot , and it is up to you if you want to fire it in a 130 year old rifle . The Romanian is a .321 dia boat tail loaded mild , about 2600 fps and is perfectly safe in any German or Turk Gew-88 . Yugo is a 198 btspr that is a copy of the German Ss ammo that was never designed to be fired in a Gew-88 . What would Darwin say about that ?
 
Yeah with everything said I may just grab a box of Rem or Win .321 commercial and call it a day. Still need to make it to the range with this beauty.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Military Rifle Journal
Back
Top