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Unusual German captured Carcano Model 1938 Cavalry Carbine

Pat

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*EDIT* Aaaaaand once again, the inexplicable sideways photos curse. Sorry, guys.

I found this one awhile back at auction with almost no description but some interesting and telling details shown in the photos. This is another Model 1938 Cavalry Carbine in 6.5mm produced at Gardone in 1942 and subsequently captured by German forces at some point after early September 1943. While it has original stamped numbers from Italian production, there is additional component numbering on the bolt flat, bolt cocking piece, trigger guard and bottom bayonet flat. These parts were not numbered in original Italian production, but numbering on (originally) non-numbered components is typical of German processing at some level in the Ordnance units. There is no depot stamp on the carbine, leaving open the question as to who stamped the extra numbers and blued the bolt.

While it's not difficult to find captured arms with German force-matched or added numbers, I've never found this to be the case with Carcanos. This is the first one like this that I've seen, and it makes me curious at what level this one was processed.

Pat
 

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*EDIT* Aaaaaand once again, the inexplicable sideways photos curse. Sorry, guys.

I found this one awhile back at auction with almost no description but some interesting and telling details shown in the photos. This is another Model 1938 Cavalry Carbine in 6.5mm produced at Gardone in 1942 and subsequently captured by German forces at some point after early September 1943. While it has original stamped numbers from Italian production, there is additional component numbering on the bolt flat, bolt cocking piece, trigger guard and bottom bayonet flat. These parts were not numbered in original Italian production, but numbering on (originally) non-numbered components is typical of German processing at some level in the Ordnance units. There is no depot stamp on the carbine, leaving open the question as to who stamped the extra numbers and blued the bolt.

While it's not difficult to find captured arms with German force-matched or added numbers, I've never found this to be the case with Carcanos. This is the first one like this that I've seen, and it makes me curious at what level this one was processed.

Pat

Very cool Pat
 
...While it's not difficult to find captured arms with German force-matched or added numbers, I've never found this to be the case with Carcanos. This is the first one like this that I've seen, and it makes me curious at what level this one was processed.

Pat

I agree. I haven't seen a Carcano like this either. Very cool. No doubt about its German connection. I'd like to know who rebuilt it and why also. The condition of the original stock suggests it would have been unissued at the point where it was rebuilt, or nearly so, also. Attractive wood grain in that stock too.
 
..I'd like to know who rebuilt it and why also..

Can't help with the 'who' but the why might be a simple matter of practice being that every captured weapon was completely disassembled, visually and functionally inspected. At that point they'd also most likely perform any modifications and clean it before issuing it. Only thing I can think of. Interesting rifle again Pat!
 
It is possible that many of the non-import marked Carcanos we see were taken from the Germans (and not the Italians) by US forces and then came here as bringbacks. The Ingolstadt Hza marked Carcanos have only the small Hza marking on the bottom of the wrist. Otherwise they look like every other Carcano. I agree with you that the Germans likely were meticulous in inspecting every weapon in their possession before reissuing. I would suppose that the unit or organization that inspected Pat's rifle was simply following their SOP and that they reblued bolts and numbered small parts because that is what they did. From its condition, I doubt that it would have needed repair.
 
Thanks all. I like rifles/carbines like this that stimulate some discussion and thought. If/when I have time I'd like to do some further research on German non-depot small arms processing. There are a lot of unanswered questions, but some tantalizing clues out there, too.

It is possible that many of the non-import marked Carcanos we see were taken from the Germans (and not the Italians) by US forces and then came here as bringbacks...the Germans likely were meticulous in inspecting every weapon in their possession before reissuing. I would suppose that the unit or organization that inspected Pat's rifle was simply following their SOP and that they reblued bolts and numbered small parts because that is what they did. From its condition, I doubt that it would have needed repair.

I agree. A wartime German document notes receiving just under 400,000 Italian rifles following Italy's armistice with the Allies. That's a significant influx of captured, serviceable weapons at a relatively late date in the war for Germany. I would imagine that many of these were taken either from facilities or went through the kind of processing you mentioned to get them to the condition we now enjoy in our collections.
 

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