Third Party Press

Period Sniper Photo SAUER SSR or SS SSR ??????

Dave Roberts

Dave Roberts

Is that a scope you have in your pocket?
Staff member
This is a Well known photo . Its likely many here know it well . Its been said that the Rifle is an SS SSR .
I would like to know what collectors here believe it to be . The Mount is a SSR with Ajack with Focal Adjustment and No Sunshade .


There was a similar discussion at WAF were it being said that this is Definitely a SS SSR Sniper Rifle . Here is Link to said discussion .
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=614179
 

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I vote for Sauer.
The Waffen-SS had their own Propagandakompanien. The photographer of this shot (Götze) was an Army member. I'm not aware of any Waffen-SS photos by Götze. In our federal archive Götze is only listed as Army photographer.

Stock with no grasping grooves and K98k TG.
 
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Well, the cover of the news says "er alleine vernichtete eine halbe Kompanie" ("he alone killed half a company") - does it also mention his name so we might be able to assign him to Army or SS?

Another interesting fact: note the locking lever in locked position is nearly flat facing towards the muzzle. From what I remember this is a feature of Sauer SSR mounts, the Ajack SS SSR mounts had the locking levers more at a 30/45° angle.

Edit: I would not outrule the possibility of the sniper having replaced his whatever was originally in his mount with an Ajack 4x90 from the SS. Usually the Ajack SS Dienstglas were mounted in the maximum backward position so the front scope ring was placed exactly where the objective housing started. In this picture the scope is clearly moved a bit towards the front, so not the way it was supposed to be. Therefore might be a sign of replacement in the front?

Edit2: Note the second pic shows an acceptance on the receiver. It should not be there were it a scrubbed Gew98 receiver, more likely a WaA359 from Sauer..
 
The rifle is probably a Sauer , even if it is difficult to say without having a left view of the rifle or a view of safety lever .

What is this scope ? The scope is without doubt Ajack SS .

Sauer are they born with Ajack with focus ring ? No !

Can we mount Ajack SS with SS mount on Sauer SSR ? Yes !

Can we mount Ajack SS on Sauer SSR mount ? Yes !

Did German Snipers sometimes change their scope ? Yes !

Have some guns been repaired by Waffenmeisters and scope replaced ? Yes !
 
Well that’s a Sauer stock 100% just by the bolt cutout, also the location of the single RR proof is just like all the e280 Sauers.
 
vintagescope said:
Sauer are they born with Ajack with focus ring ? No !
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Interesting quote. You have documentation to prove this or is this just your opinion? Army sniper rifle with an SS property Ajack scope? Highly unlikely.


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vintagescope said:
What is this scope ? The scope is without doubt Ajack SS .
Click to expand...
How can you tell? Any proves?
To me the photo shows nothing but a commercial Ajack 4x90.
The Ajack is mentioned in the Army sniper manual. For SSR and the turret mount.
Thanks
 
BTW:
From what I can make out.
The sniper has cuffs on his great coat and no sleeve eagle. => Army!
 
mrfarb said:
Interesting quote. You have documentation to prove this or is this just your opinion? Army sniper rifle with an SS property Ajack scope? Highly unlikely.


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+1. I find it hard to believe that snipers changed their scopes in the field. And I am not referring to the instance when a scope was broke and repaired. A soldier didn't replace his scope merely because he didn't like it.

Why is it so hard to believe that Sauer obtained some Ajack scopes for use on their Short Side Rail rifles? This seems more logical to me then an Army sniper in the field replacing his scope with a SS scope and mount. Where did he get it from?
 
vintagescope said:
The rifle is probably a Sauer , even if it is difficult to say without having a left view of the rifle or a view of safety lever .

What is this scope ? The scope is without doubt Ajack SS .

Sauer are they born with Ajack with focus ring ? No !

Can we mount Ajack SS with SS mount on Sauer SSR ? Yes !

Can we mount Ajack SS on Sauer SSR mount ? Yes !

Did German Snipers sometimes change their scope ? Yes !

Have some guns been repaired by Waffenmeisters and scope replaced ? Yes !
Click to expand...

Vintagescope,
You may be correct. But the problem is that you make claims and never provide pictures, data or anything so support your claims. Without this how can we take your advise? You seem unwilling to share anything with us here on this board. I am wanting to learn from you but I need more then just your opinion in text forum. Please share with us how you came to your conclusions so we can learn. Thanks.
 
I always enjoy sharing info . As I mentioned at WAF I found a much clearer pic of this exact photo which shows this Rifle has no Base Cut out in Stock typical of SS SSR`s but that the Stock is actually relieved on InSide Typical of SAUER SSR`s also You will notice a Base Pin in the photo which I point out . Now We have a Left View of Stock . Here is my Evidence/Proof . Best Regards
 

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Here are a couple more pictures that belong to the group.
 

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Hercules said:
I think Sauer SSR with SS Ajack. Probably not from factory that way.
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I’m curious why collectors think Sauer didn’t use Ajack scopes on their SSR rifles? Im not being rude, it’s an honest question. Even with this period photo showing a Sauer SSR with an Ajack on it, right there from WW2. Is it less believable than an Army armorer installing an SS property marked scope on an Army rifle? I’m guessing some eyes will be opened by the time this thread is finished.


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Its been said that SAUER used ONLY Kahles & DKL Scopes !!!! . But that never came out of my mouth !!!!
 
mrfarb said:
I’m curious why collectors think Sauer didn’t use Ajack scopes on their SSR rifles? Im not being rude, it’s an honest question. Even with this period photo showing a Sauer SSR with an Ajack on it, right there from WW2. Is it less believable than an Army armorer installing an SS property marked scope on an Army rifle? I’m guessing some eyes will be opened by the time this thread is finished.


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Who knows. It is hard to say. Pretty rare scope if original to rifle and could be a recycled SS scope and mount. That SS Scope and mount theory would be a more common explanation. At least it would be a known scope and mount combination.

I hope you can prove otherwise. Maybe you guys already know of an example out there in a collection? Is that foundation of this discussion? I did not sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night, so I am going to quit now. Actually, I spent all last night and most of today on an airplane. Never say never as they say.
 
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Hercules said:
I did not sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night, so I am going to quit now. Actually, I spent all last night and most of today on an airplane. Never say never as they say.
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:laugh: Bravo, that is the right way to look at this. I'm waiting for Dave to "edumecate" us as well, he started this thread. :happy0180:
 
Dave, is it just me or does the ocular look like it is screwed on out from the bell? I see an extra line there that I don't see on SS Ajack scopes (if this makes sense).

Close up of scope in picture
Ajack scope.jpg

SS Scope
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mdarnell19 said:
Dave, is it just me or does the ocular look like it is screwed on out from the bell? I see an extra line there that I don't see on SS Ajack scopes (if this makes sense).

Close up of scope in picture
View attachment 188958

SS Scope
View attachment 188959
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Matt
The Rear Lens Housing is screwed out of Tube for some reason in the Top photos . There is no difference between these two scopes in how there manufactured/made . I was wondering if anyone would notice this fact as it clearly visible in the Sniper photo .
 
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