I recently purchased this Danzig 1890 dated Gewehr 88. I think it's a fine example, and I'm very happy to have it. It has all the markings indicating the various changes the Germans did to update the rifle. It's also a 'Turkish' version, as noted by the bolt and sight markings. I was told it was re-barreled in 1939. I'd really appreciate if some of the folks here with more experience would chine in with their thoughts. Thanks!!!
Danzig 1890 - I would greatly appreciate any info
- Thread starter SunKing
- Start date
Your rifle has had about all of the common updates done to it . The .323 Z barrel is German and was put on the rifle after 1896 , but before 1915 ish . Not 1939 . The dot means the barrel nut solder was reinforced with the upgraded solder . And of course the 05 upgrade to stripper clip loading . The rear sight sounds [ no photo ] like the rifle went to Turkey through the Czechs post WWI .
pzjgr
EOD - bombs and bullets
I am going to go out on a limb here and disagree about the part that it went to Turkey Post WWI via the Czechs...
According to Scarlatta, these CZ marked Czech bolts were ordered and supplied to the Turks post WWI, since when the British left Turkey, to "demil" the Turk guns (at least the 88's) they simply removed the bolts and took them with them...The Turks then ordered replacements at some point from the Czechs....
So it is more likely this 88 was supplied to the Turks by the Germans prior to WWII...
Thanks for the replies ernie8 and pzjgr. Here are a few more pictures of the bolt and the rear sight. I am very curious about all the markings on the barrel. I am somewhat familiar with the "n.m." and the "Z" markings - but does anyone know anything about the others? And again, I was told this was re-barreled by Turkey in 39 - and that's what the '39' markings represent. However, I got this from a pawn shop - so I suspect they may not be experts ...so I'm reaching out to all the folks here for help. Again, any information you can provide would be greatly appreciated. THANKS!!
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The information in that book is wrong . It is based on made up info he heard from a guy on the internet [ that was the research ] that does not even own any Gew-88 rifles . The rear sight will tell when it went to Turkey . And if you do any real research [ besides asking on the internet ] , the Czech records are still around . The barrel is clearly a pre WWI German as it matches the receiver marks and has German proofs . The rifle does not have the Turk rebarrel mark on it .
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The marking I was looking for is found on the side of the buttstock , not buttplate . It is a stamping in the wood . I did not figure it would have it , but some times people put the wrong parts on rifles thinking they are " making them correct " due to all the bad info printed lately about Gew-88 rifles .
Thanks ernie8, how's this?
And stealing a page from Warrior1354 - here's the specs:
Receiver: 1890 Danzig 9642
Barrel: 9642
Barrel shroud: 9642
Stock: 9642
Bolt head: crescent w/matching Arabic #'s
Bolt body: crescent w/matching Arabic #'s and circle z
Bolt safety: crescent w/matching Arabic #'s and circle z
Bolt firing pin: crescent w/matching Arabic #'s and circle z
Bolt cocking piece: crescent w/matching Arabic #'s
Bolt end cap: crescent w/matching Arabic #'s and circle z
Rear barrel band: 642 121.R.2.19.
Front barrel band: 642
Trigger guard: 9642
Front trigger guard screw: 42
Rear trigger guard screw: 42
Front sight: 42
Rear sight: 9642
Rear sight slider: 42
Rear sight slide release: 42
Trigger sear: 42
Buttplate: 13 F
And stealing a page from Warrior1354 - here's the specs:
Receiver: 1890 Danzig 9642
Barrel: 9642
Barrel shroud: 9642
Stock: 9642
Bolt head: crescent w/matching Arabic #'s
Bolt body: crescent w/matching Arabic #'s and circle z
Bolt safety: crescent w/matching Arabic #'s and circle z
Bolt firing pin: crescent w/matching Arabic #'s and circle z
Bolt cocking piece: crescent w/matching Arabic #'s
Bolt end cap: crescent w/matching Arabic #'s and circle z
Rear barrel band: 642 121.R.2.19.
Front barrel band: 642
Trigger guard: 9642
Front trigger guard screw: 42
Rear trigger guard screw: 42
Front sight: 42
Rear sight: 9642
Rear sight slider: 42
Rear sight slide release: 42
Trigger sear: 42
Buttplate: 13 F
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Although the G88 is not my specialty, I have to agree with ernie when it comes to the barrel and PaulS book on the G88, like so many authors his approach to the subject was superficial, from a casual collectors perspective. Which is the exact opposite of Storz's book, which is an archival study almost devoid of the collectors perspective. Neither method do a subject justice, though both fill a space in the hobby, - archival studies are indispensable to researchers and serious students in the field, and shallow and superficial works are about all a meat and potatoes collector can handle... everyone knows these latter types, the shooter than can't handle much more than Gun & Ammo or the funnies in the local paper (the guy who routinely comes here for advice after he has bought a rifle he shouldn't have)
Anyway, it's good to see so many interesting G88's show up lately, - so often when they show up they are not very stimulating!
Anyway, it's good to see so many interesting G88's show up lately, - so often when they show up they are not very stimulating!
Who says you should never shoot an old military rifle? Obviously, I think it depends on the rifle itself. Well, in this case - after careful inspection and research - I took this old 1890 dated Gew88 to the range. I loaded it with Prvi Partizan 8mm Mauser Ammunition 196 Grains. It fired flawlessly, and I was very surprised with the small grouping I got at 50yrds. I put about 20 rounds through the Gew88, and another 20 or so through my K98. It was a beautiful day to shoot.
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Not me , I have fired 10's of 1000" of rounds through over 85 Gew-88 rifles . But I was told on this board not to talk about or promote shooting them , so I did not . If the Germans ever thought about shooting them they would not have used Ss 198 ammo as the Gew-88 was never intended to shoot that . They were made to fire P-88 and S ammo . With your .323+ bore and the lighter of 198 load offered by Privi , you should be ok . I also have Gew-88's in 8x60mm , 7x57mm , 7.65x53mm and 6.5x55mm . The 6.5mm rifle has a receiver mounted disc target sight and globe front and is really accurate . .8" 5 shot at 100 and a hair over 2" at 200 from the bench with match handloads , if I would shoot it .
What was said is that we (forum moderators) expect no declarations regarding the safety of shooting these rifles. Certainly no comments that are not explicitly noted as "opinions".
We do not censor/infract contributors in any case (outside of abusive behavior as defined by the forum guidelines), however if someone is flagrant in pronouncements of ammunition safety and or who doesn't declare his comments as opinion, I will have to remind everyone of the distinction between opinion and fact and the importance of knowing what you are doing before shooting any ammunition in any firearm, especially one more than 100 years old.
It will be highly annoying if any of this is necessary, however I think it is important that we do not encourage reckless behavior, many take comments on the internet (or media/news) as fact, when in actuality in almost all cases they are opinions or at best opinions based upon facts.
Anyway, Not everyone is as well versed in ammunition safety as ernie is, I certainly am not, but I do know the difference between an opinion and a fact and I expect everyone who wishes to offer advice to make the distinction.
We do not censor/infract contributors in any case (outside of abusive behavior as defined by the forum guidelines), however if someone is flagrant in pronouncements of ammunition safety and or who doesn't declare his comments as opinion, I will have to remind everyone of the distinction between opinion and fact and the importance of knowing what you are doing before shooting any ammunition in any firearm, especially one more than 100 years old.
It will be highly annoying if any of this is necessary, however I think it is important that we do not encourage reckless behavior, many take comments on the internet (or media/news) as fact, when in actuality in almost all cases they are opinions or at best opinions based upon facts.
Anyway, Not everyone is as well versed in ammunition safety as ernie is, I certainly am not, but I do know the difference between an opinion and a fact and I expect everyone who wishes to offer advice to make the distinction.
heavy_mech
RKI- Reasonably Knowledgable Individual
Thank you sir! And all you sirs who do such a great job of moderating this forum.
I was trying not to break the rules , but also help out people who asked for help or were going to do something [ that in my opinion ] was dangerous . I really agree with the statement that a lot of the info on the internet is poor . But how do you handle it when you know something someone was told is wrong ? They should be helped . All I can do is try and make a good enough case that they at least will consider my ADVICE . I am a custom gunsmith who develops cartridges and builds rifles to shoot them . Develops load data using strain gauges . I have test fired 100's of 1000's of rounds through over 2000 old military rifles . I have worked with all the major military rifle types doing complete rebuilds in wildcat calibers , thus learning all their strong and weak points . I have built AR-15's that fire 200 grain bullets at 2150 fps , my own cartridge design and my own gas system made from scratch . I make my own bullets , my own cases as needed .
I was a ranked benchrest shooter using what I made . I have taken 100's of big game animal with my cartridges and rifles . So in MY opinion I do not need to be told what rifle I should shoot [ as I was here on the 88 hunt post ] , by someone who has no idea how rifles even work [ but that does support the boards statement about what is on the internet ] . When does opinion become fact ? I have tried to show some of the experience I was basing my opinions on . I do know exactly what bore sizes were used in Gew-88's , when , by whom , why , and how to tell by the markings . But that is the root of the problem , there are many who think they do [ but do not ] and they are spreading the bad info . There is an old doc who spreads a lot of incorrect [ some dangerous ] reloading info . I feel people should at least be warned before the break a rifle or get hurt . They can heed the warning if the choose , up to them . On the other hand it is my opinion they should be able shoot their rifle if they want to . SO my question for the mods is it ok to help or warn people if I state it as an Opinion only ? It is your board and your rules .
I was a ranked benchrest shooter using what I made . I have taken 100's of big game animal with my cartridges and rifles . So in MY opinion I do not need to be told what rifle I should shoot [ as I was here on the 88 hunt post ] , by someone who has no idea how rifles even work [ but that does support the boards statement about what is on the internet ] . When does opinion become fact ? I have tried to show some of the experience I was basing my opinions on . I do know exactly what bore sizes were used in Gew-88's , when , by whom , why , and how to tell by the markings . But that is the root of the problem , there are many who think they do [ but do not ] and they are spreading the bad info . There is an old doc who spreads a lot of incorrect [ some dangerous ] reloading info . I feel people should at least be warned before the break a rifle or get hurt . They can heed the warning if the choose , up to them . On the other hand it is my opinion they should be able shoot their rifle if they want to . SO my question for the mods is it ok to help or warn people if I state it as an Opinion only ? It is your board and your rules .
As the primary moderator on these two forums (Imperial & Republic) I am ok with your commentary on ammunition topics and rifles as long as you make sure it is your opinion and you make no claims to suggest it is safe. You may be the most informed collector on this subject, your opinions may be based upon facts, but your observations are based upon specific rifles using specific ammunition and in any equation of rifle safety you can not know the condition or status of the rifle others intend to shoot. In short, you can't possibly know if ammunition is safe in a rifle you have not seen or evaluated.
The site owners, Mike, Bruce and Craig may have other requirements, there maybe legal considerations I am unable to evaluate (our insane legal system), but my main concern is someone taking your informed commentary, based upon your experiences, which as you have stated as a gunsmith are qualified to know a safe rifle from a compromised rifle, as applicable to their rifle and situation.
I think there is merit in your research and observations, and knowledgeable (experienced) collectors can profit from reading about your experiments and conclusions, however I would ask you to remember that this forum is open to the public and many here have very little practical experience and it could be dangerous if someone misuses or misinterprets your observations.
The site owners, Mike, Bruce and Craig may have other requirements, there maybe legal considerations I am unable to evaluate (our insane legal system), but my main concern is someone taking your informed commentary, based upon your experiences, which as you have stated as a gunsmith are qualified to know a safe rifle from a compromised rifle, as applicable to their rifle and situation.
I think there is merit in your research and observations, and knowledgeable (experienced) collectors can profit from reading about your experiments and conclusions, however I would ask you to remember that this forum is open to the public and many here have very little practical experience and it could be dangerous if someone misuses or misinterprets your observations.
I understand where you are coming from . I do feel in many ways the internet makes people stupid . They go straight to the internet for any answer with no way of knowing the source . But on the other hand they also need to be shown the real information to compare . Otherwise they will just become dumb . Bad info on the net does have to be fought .
Oh my!
My goodness, I didn't mean to stir up trouble. I've never held anyone liable for my stupid actions. Sure did have a great day at the range. But let's get back to why we're all here - these historic rifles! I'm so thrilled to have a one built in the late 1800's, modified to change calibers - and still be numbers matching down to the bands and screws. It's awe inspiriting to hold a piece of history like that in your hands.
More eye candy!!
My goodness, I didn't mean to stir up trouble. I've never held anyone liable for my stupid actions. Sure did have a great day at the range. But let's get back to why we're all here - these historic rifles! I'm so thrilled to have a one built in the late 1800's, modified to change calibers - and still be numbers matching down to the bands and screws. It's awe inspiriting to hold a piece of history like that in your hands.
More eye candy!!
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