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G43 not cycling properly

Horilka

Horilka

Member
I would appreciate any help in troubleshooting my G43 that does not cycle properly.
I got this rifle recently, she is VoPo shooter so I acquired shooters kit, installed it with smallest [- corrected] size orifice, cleaned the rifle and off to the range.

First shot is fine, try to pull the trigger for secon - no click, no nothing, it travels all the way back like there was no reset or hammer is down. Inspect the action - first casing ejected, second round chambered with primer having very light strike (ok for freefloat pin), bolt fully closed. OK, let's try again - round back to magazine, chamber, fire. Same thing - case is extracted, third round in chamber and trigger travels all the way back without any effect on action. Time for a better check.
Dry cycling with no mag, pull the trigger, hear the hammer drops, keep trigger pulled and try to cycle the action. Feel hammer cocks, I let the carrier return to forward position and here, while releasing the trigger hammer drops. WTF. I already had this day SVT-40 firing full auto on me and did not want extra attention with G43 firing the full auto.

Here's what I found at home during detailed inspection. Parts seem to be with no damage, cycle fine when you pull the bolt/carrier, pull the trigger, release the trigger, pull bolt again and so on. But this is not how it happens during semi-auto shooting. Bolt travels faster than one releases the trigger. So next test with keeping trigger squeezed. Every time I do it and cycle the bolt/carrier - hammer drops as soon as I start releasing the trigger. I'm surprised it did not fire FA at range, probably too early in timing and bolt/carrier are not fully closed. At the range hammer was already down when I was releasing the trigger, so I guess recoil forced it down, anyway definitely something wrong. And I can't figure out what exactly.

Took down whole action, cleaned from some ancient grease, lubed, put it back - same thing.
Adjustemnt screw is in the middle position, tried to move it all the way up or down - does not affect the issue. Returned it to original position.

Here are some video explaining and pictures of parts. This is my first G43, I know other semis but not G43 so I guess I am either missing something or don't understating how it suppose to work. Any help would be appreciated.
P.S. Ammo Winchester FMJ 154gr

Video - >>> https://streamable.com/2z9r5 <<<

Hammer cocked.













Hammer released.













Parts:










 
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It appears fine to the eye. I would try installing the larger orifice in shooter's kit piston. I suspect the bolt may not be traveling far enough to the rear to allow for proper functioning. Try Romanian surplus or a heavier bullet. ? Did it function without the shooters kit installed and if so, how far was the brass ejecting??
 
G43

Horilka said:
I would appreciate any help in troubleshooting my G43 that does not cycle properly.
I got this rifle recently, she is VoPo shooter so I aquired shooters kit, installed it with medium size orifice, cleaned the rifle and off to the range.

First shot is fine, try to pull the trigger for secon - no click, no nothing, it travels all the way back like there was no reset or hammer is down. Inspect the action - first casing ejected, second round chambered with primer having very light strike (ok for freefloat pin), bolt fully closed. OK, let's try again - round back to magazine, chamber, fire. Same thing - case is extracted, third round in chamber and trigger travels all the way back without any effect on action. Time for a better check.
Dry cyclin with no mag, pull the trigger, hear the hammer drops, keep trigger pulled and try to cycle the action. Feel hammer cocks, I let the carrier return to forward position and here, while releasing the trigger hammer drops. WTF. I already had this day SVT-40 firing full auto on me and did not want extra attention with G43 firing the full auto.

Here's what I found at home during detailed inspection. Parts seem to be with no damage, cycle fine when you pull the bolt/carrier, pull the trigger, release the trigger, pull bolt again and so on. But this is not how it happens during semi-auto shooting. Bolt travels faster than one releases the trigger. So next test with keeping trigger squeezed. Every time I do it and cycle the bolt/carrier - hammer drops as soon as I start releasing the trigger. I'm surprised it did not fire FA at range, probably too early in timing and bolt/carrier are not fully closed. At the range hammer was already down when I was releasing the trigger, so I guess recoil forced it down, anyway definitely something wrong. And I can't figure out what exactly.

Took down whole action, cleaned from some ancient grease, lubed, put it back - same thing.
Adjustemnt screw is in the middle position, tried to move it all the way up or down - does not affect the issue. Returned it to original position.

Here are some video explaining and pictures of parts. This is my first G43, I know other semis but not G43 so I guess I am either missing something or don't understating how it suppose to work. Any help would be appreciated.
P.S. Ammo Winchester FMJ 154gr


What size is the orifice in the shooter kit,also did you replace the main springs?
Mine cycles best with a 1.5 mm orifice,I wonder if yours cycles so violent that the bolt smacks into
the rear of the receiver and jars the hammer off its hook,so that it will follow the bolt and put a small
dent in the primer.
Click to expand...
 
I don't think your trouble lies with the shooter kit you installed. Especially since you can duplicate your problem by simply hand cycling your bolt with the trigger back and the hammer still rides the bolt home and doesn't reset. I have seen this on three other G43's, mine and two others from a friend.

For mine, fix was that the stamped sheet metal bolt housing was warped/worn out enough to allow the cam on the bottom of the bolt to not push the hammer down far enough for the sear to catch it. I replaced the bolt housing and my troubles were over.

For the other two, they both cycled fine with my bolt assembly and I determined that for both, the cams (the ramp looking part on the bottom of the bolt) were worn enough to, again, not push the hammer down enough to reset. I laid a small bead of weld on the cams and hand filed them until they worked right. One rifle worked fine after this, the other would only work if you quickly released the trigger quickly after you fired the shot. Both these rifles were mismatched reenactor grade guns and not pricey collectibles so the owner only cared that they worked.

A simple thing you could try on yours is to swap out the bolt housing and see if this changes anything. Maybe you know somebody that has one locally that would let you try this before you spend some money on an expensive part.
 
rpf2697 said:
It appears fine to the eye. I would try installing the larger orifice in shooter's kit piston. I suspect the bolt may not be traveling far enough to the rear to allow for proper functioning. Try Romanian surplus or a heavier bullet. ? Did it function without the shooters kit installed and if so, how far was the brass ejecting??
Click to expand...

I haven't tried without shooter's kit. As soon as I found it hammer does not stay when manually cycle I stopped.

M1-Garand said:
What size is the orifice in the shooter kit,also did you replace the main springs?
Mine cycles best with a 1.5 mm orifice,I wonder if yours cycles so violent that the bolt smacks into
the rear of the receiver and jars the hammer off its hook,so that it will follow the bolt and put a small
dent in the primer.
Click to expand...

My mistake, apparently I was using smallest one - 1.8mm, other two measure 2.3mm and 2.8mm. I have not replaced main springs.

Experimenting with different ammo or orifice size or original gas components is something I have in mind of course. However I don't think it's normal to have hammer dropping while manually cycling. How does your G/K43 work when you cycle and keep trigger pulled and then release it? It supposed to stay cocked, isn't it? So if it does not work properly with manual cycle what is the point of trying different ammo / gas settings. Eventually I will come to this, but it will take another day off and trip to the range.
 
Horilka said:
I haven't tried without shooter's kit. As soon as I found it hammer does not stay when manually cycle I stopped.



My mistake, apparently I was using smallest one - 1.8mm, other two measure 2.3mm and 2.8mm. I have not replaced main springs.

Experimenting with different ammo or orifice size or original gas components is something I have in mind of course. However I don't think it's normal to have hammer dropping while manually cycling. How does your G/K43 work when you cycle and keep trigger pulled and then release it? It supposed to stay cocked, isn't it? So if it does not work properly with manual cycle what is the point of trying different ammo / gas settings. Eventually I will come to this, but it will take another day off and trip to the range.
Click to expand...

You're right of course ,the hammer should stay cocked and should not follow even with the trigger held
back,releasing the trigger once the bolt is back in battery the hammer resets with an audible click.
I just tried it on mine and it works like that.
Wonder if someone had the trigger group apart and did not assemble it right,maybe a spring in the wrong position?
Long time ago I had mine apart and I can tell you it was'nt any fun getting it back together,it has to be done in the right sequence or it will not work.
 
The disconnector is jacked up. Look at the pin holding it in place, it's mushroomed on one side and not even going all way through the disconnector on the opposite side. Get a new pin and try again.
 
Intruder196 said:
I don't think your trouble lies with the shooter kit you installed. Especially since you can duplicate your problem by simply hand cycling your bolt with the trigger back and the hammer still rides the bolt home and doesn't reset. I have seen this on three other G43's, mine and two others from a friend.

For mine, fix was that the stamped sheet metal bolt housing was warped/worn out enough to allow the cam on the bottom of the bolt to not push the hammer down far enough for the sear to catch it. I replaced the bolt housing and my troubles were over.

For the other two, they both cycled fine with my bolt assembly and I determined that for both, the cams (the ramp looking part on the bottom of the bolt) were worn enough to, again, not push the hammer down enough to reset. I laid a small bead of weld on the cams and hand filed them until they worked right. One rifle worked fine after this, the other would only work if you quickly released the trigger quickly after you fired the shot. Both these rifles were mismatched reenactor grade guns and not pricey collectibles so the owner only cared that they worked.

A simple thing you could try on yours is to swap out the bolt housing and see if this changes anything. Maybe you know somebody that has one locally that would let you try this before you spend some money on an expensive part.
Click to expand...

I had a similar problem with a bolt mismatched G41. When dry cycling the action everything worked as it should, but under live fire, it would not cock the hammer. Sometimes it would double fire. As soon as I replaced the bolt, it functioned perfectly. The contour of the cam on the bottom of the new bold was slightly higher.
 
On semi autos and closed bolt full autos, the job of the disconnector is to prevent exactly what the OP describes. The disconnector needs a new pin and needs to be able to pivot forward and backwards freely without binding. Stop futzing around and fix it. You're not a cat with 9 lives to spare when shite hits the fan. This is a safety issue, plain and simple, period.

 
Like it was noted above, this is not an ammo issue.

The disconnector is not working correctly and it was already noted above as well that the pin holding it is damaged.


Pretty much your disconnector is releasing the hammer before the sear catches it again when you release the trigger after holding it down.
 
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Yup

Have had this problem with my Semi StG44. Like others have said, hammer follow is happening due to disconnector not working correctly. Also have had the problem with a chipped hammer.
 
GunKraut said:
The disconnector is jacked up. Look at the pin holding it in place, it's mushroomed on one side and not even going all way through the disconnector on the opposite side. Get a new pin and try again.
Click to expand...

You're right. That was the issue. I overlooked it because I though one end of the pin is mushroomed intentionally to secure it in place from right side. But did not notice another side is not fully seated. As soon as I worked a bit on the pin and made it sit properly action manually cycled as it should. I really appreciate your help and efforts of other members that tried to help me.

Now, two question - is there a place for replacement pin or my best chance is made one by myself?
And second - how is original pin held in place, just tension? What prevents it from walking out either side? It looks there are plenty of space to left and right and regular pin could drift out.
 
Looks like originally this pin is opened up from one side only. How come it does not drift out? Below is the picture from the Net.

s-l1600.jpg


s-l1600.jpg
 
Horilka said:
You're right. That was the issue. I overlooked it because I though one end of the pin is mushroomed intentionally to secure it in place from right side. But did not notice another side is not fully seated. As soon as I worked a bit on the pin and made it sit properly action manually cycled as it should. I really appreciate your help and efforts of other members that tried to help me.

Now, two question - is there a place for replacement pin or my best chance is made one by myself?
And second - how is original pin held in place, just tension? What prevents it from walking out either side? It looks there are plenty of space to left and right and regular pin could drift out.
Click to expand...

I never bothered measuring the holes in the disconnector to see if they are of slightly different diameter, similar to the holes in the firing pin carrier. Since you managed to re-seat the pin, how about trying to carefully peen it at the "short" end while supporting it from the other end with an anvil? You could use a small ball bearing to deform the rim of the hollow-tipped pin enough to hold it in place. Make sure the disconnector still pivots afterwards without binding. To check the quality of your peen job, support the disconnector with the open end of a small socket from underneath and try to manually push the pin out with a small punch. If it stays in place, congratulations. If it still pushes through, time to fabricate a new one from medium hardness steel. A roofing nail is not a good choice of material.
 
There’s a seller on eBay based on the Netherlands that has various 43 parts. I bought one of the firing pin extension retaining pins and it is a top quality part. You might want to check with them. frontlinemilitaria is the seller’s name.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
GunKraut nailed it exactly. It's the disconnector. Either it's not pivoting squarely because the pin is not holding it properly, or the spring powering the disconnector is lame, or its mating surfaces have inadequate engagement.

None of the other explanations are in the least likely. The bolt velocity in actual firing is more than adequate to fling the hammer back as far as it needs to go to re-cock, and if the ammo were at fault it would not load the next cartridge when it cycled.

M
 
MGMike said:
GunKraut nailed it exactly. It's the disconnector. Either it's not pivoting squarely because the pin is not holding it properly, or the spring powering the disconnector is lame, or its mating surfaces have inadequate engagement.

None of the other explanations are in the least likely. The bolt velocity in actual firing is more than adequate to fling the hammer back as far as it needs to go to re-cock, and if the ammo were at fault it would not load the next cartridge when it cycled.

M
Click to expand...

Thats a BINGO! Never had that issue with any of mine though I did get one with a nearly flattened out bolt housing. Seller said it's not a shooter..No kidding! I do hope before I reach expiration that newly made G43s will make it stateside...
 
I have never studied the firing pin/firing pin carrier/locking lugs geometry and timing closely enough to determine whether, in the case of hammer follow-down, there is enough slop to allow the firing pin to strike the primer of a chambered cartridge deeply enough or hard enough to fire it before the bolt is fully locked. As firing pins go, the G43's is pretty heavy, and does float, which --considering that these rifles were not built to the highest standards of gunmaking--is worrisome. Some slight primer indent on chambering is common and unavoidable, as it is with M1 rifles, but the G43 does not have a turn-bolt locking system. This presents a question whether, in addition to the possibility of slam-fire, there might be some risk of firing before the locking lugs are fully pushed out to engage the receiver.

It's a good subject for a rainy afternoon's bench-top investigation...

M
 
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MGMike said:
I have never studied the firing pin/firing pin carrier/locking lugs geometry and timing closely enough to determine whether, in the case of hammer follow-down, there is enough slop to allow the firing pin to strike the primer of a chambered cartridge deeply enough or hard enough to fire it before the bolt is fully locked. As firing pins go, the G43's is pretty heavy, and does float, which --considering that these rifles were not built to the highest standards of gunmaking--is worrisome. Some slight primer indent on chambering is common and unavoidable, as it is with M1 rifles, but the G43 does not have a turn-bolt locking system. This presents a question whether, in addition to the possibility of slam-fire, there might be some risk of firing before the locking lugs are fully pushed out to engage the receiver.

It's a good subject for a rainy afternoon's bench-top investigation...

M
Click to expand...

While a slam fire is entirely possible and has probably happened at some point with the G43, I don't think it is able to fire out of battery simply by the design of the firing pin carrier and locking lugs.

For the firing pin to reach the primer, the firing pin carrier has to be pushed forward, pushing out the locking lugs.

If the lugs cannot extend, then the firing pin can't reach the primer.


Same with how a lot of open-bolt machine guns work (best that come to mind are the Degtyarev series, or the Maxim (closed bolt with a rising bolt face), but also the M60, FG42, or Lewis)
 
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