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WW1 shoot off

Warrior1354

Warrior1354

ax - hole
Well this is the first time I've done it but I'm going to do this tomorrow afternoon. I'm going to have a WW1 shoot off between two German Imperial rifles and one of the empires counterparts. The rifles in particular I picked was the SMLE 1918 dated, Gew98 1904 Danzig, and 1892 Gew88 Spandau. Personally I still wish I had my World War 1 era French lebel but I sold it years ago. I also had a 1918 made Springfield 03 as well in the high number range. But I think this will be a nice lineup and I think it would be a fun exercise.
 

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So who won the battle ?

I also had a similar shoot out - on July 1, 2016 to commemorate the battle of the Somme.
(Hope I'm not imposing on your thread here)
 

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I have test fired 100's of WWI rifles and scored 1000's of military rifle match targets [ 16 years worth , 4 times each month ] and can tell you it will come down to the ammo you use . With good handloaded ammo the Gew-88 , Gew-98 , the M-1903 , M-1917 can all do around 1 to 1 1/2 inch 5 shot groups at 100 yards . The problem with the French rifles and the Carcano is you limited by the bullets you can get , there are not any that are real good or the right size . The Enfield is always stuck around 3+ inch groups no matter what you do . But when you switch to man size targets , or rapid fire they all will get the job done .
 
It was alot of fun. And to be honest for some reason taking three or four military rifles always seems too draw a crowd to your table when your shooting!

Well the SMLE was the straight shooter and was able to print some nice groups with that rifle. And that was even with some rapid fire quick reload drills too. Rifle loves the Greek 303 British ammo but I'm going too have go easy on shooting that stuff my stock is getting low.

The Gewehr 98 liked too print high and to the left on my target. Of course it was hard too tell where I was hitting due too the type of targets I was using and I forgot my binoculars. So had too use my line of sight. In the summer I could tell easier due too the dust being kicked up on the backstop. Last weekend it had rained so the backstop was mud. The Gewehr 98 printed better with the military Portuguese 7.92x57 over the PPU stuff. I like too try a mix of both too see what results you get.

The Gewehr 88 also shot high and to the left but I liked the sighting system on that rifle better much simpler and easier too use IMO. Plus that was the first time that rifle had been fired by me or who knows how long. Only shot PPU soft point and Remington soft point in that rifle. Still it was a very neat rifle too shoot and the first time I have shot a Gew88.

All in all it was a fun experience plus I enjoy shooting these old war horses over the modern stuff. And I think its funny when I can out shoot someone at the range with a high custom AR, with a match grade barrel, match grade ammo, expensive scope using only iron sights on a 100 year old SMLE!
 
Like this?

1916 Danzig, ‘17 Saxon Depot repair

92-1X

Yes, I mounted the target upside down

t
 

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Best shooting WW1 rifle I ever had was DEFINITELY a 1915 Lithgow SMLE III.

Very honourable mentions were an Erfurt 1913 Kar98A and a Schilling 1917 Gew98.
 
I understand people have different definitions of what is accurate . The above G-98 targets would be a solid last place in any of our matches . Our top shooters would have keep all the shots in the x ring on such a large target . We used much smaller scoring rings for that reason. That would also explain why people keep saying Enfields are accurate , when they are about the worst of all military rifles for several built in reasons . In over 15 years of matches about every week with at least 100 different shooters , no shooter ever won any accuracy part of a match with an Enfield . They were so far out the only way we could keep them shooting was to run Enfield only matches . Two friends and I have test fired for accuracy over 5000 military rifles with 1000's of different loads tried and could never get the Enfields close to the other military rifles . We did have a few guys with " great shooting" Enfields show for out matches , but after last place finishes , they could not explain what happened to their accuracy .
 
Well excuse me. I haven't shot this rifle in nearly 5 years, am retired and disabled, but still go out in the winter to have a little fun. This is a winter postal match for my gun forum. That I missed 10 in the black by a close 2, made it a very good day. The competition bus has long left the station.

t
 
As I said , accuracy means different things to different people . I never said you should not go out and shoot . I was just talking about the accuracy potential of different rifle types .
 
I will give you credit for posting honest results , so many do not . There was a guy who shot in our matches , was always last place , his targets not much better than yours . Amazingly on the internet he always shot sub 1 inch groups . He wrote about a 100 " articles " on the old surplus rifle forum , all how great his loads were and how well he shot . It was ALL made up BS . In the real world the guy was the local range fool . The sad part was that 1000's [ ? ] of people thought it was real and wasted their time and money on duplicating his crap .
 
Just use some epoxy to build up the front sight . Trim it to shape and zero it for elevation . You can always pop it off later with no damage to the rifle . In our matches the rifles had to be as issued . The only thing we allowed was zeroing the front sight .
 
Warrior1354 said:
It was alot of fun. And to be honest for some reason taking three or four military rifles always seems too draw a crowd to your table when your shooting!

Well the SMLE was the straight shooter and was able to print some nice groups with that rifle. And that was even with some rapid fire quick reload drills too. Rifle loves the Greek 303 British ammo but I'm going too have go easy on shooting that stuff my stock is getting low.

The Gewehr 98 liked too print high and to the left on my target. Of course it was hard too tell where I was hitting due too the type of targets I was using and I forgot my binoculars. So had too use my line of sight. In the summer I could tell easier due too the dust being kicked up on the backstop. Last weekend it had rained so the backstop was mud. The Gewehr 98 printed better with the military Portuguese 7.92x57 over the PPU stuff. I like too try a mix of both too see what results you get.

The Gewehr 88 also shot high and to the left but I liked the sighting system on that rifle better much simpler and easier too use IMO. Plus that was the first time that rifle had been fired by me or who knows how long. Only shot PPU soft point and Remington soft point in that rifle. Still it was a very neat rifle too shoot and the first time I have shot a Gew88.

All in all it was a fun experience plus I enjoy shooting these old war horses over the modern stuff. And I think its funny when I can out shoot someone at the range with a high custom AR, with a match grade barrel, match grade ammo, expensive scope using only iron sights on a 100 year old SMLE!
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Ditto all that.

My 1916 DWM 98 dark bore shot to the left using FMJ PPU, PPU Match and my IMR 4064 42gr handloads.

The BSA has an excellent bore and also really likes the Greek 303 ammo and was more accurate.

However it was a grey day and my eyes are not too good in low light and the sights are easier to use on the brit - not to mention my rank amateur status... So I'll call it a draw.

And just for the record I probably would have come in behind Plymouth so well done there.

Merry Christmas
 
Mauser Front Sights

It is my understanding that all Mauser rifle front sights utilized the same sized dovetail. I solved the "got to aim low" problem with my shooter Gew by putting a Swedish M96 +4 front sight on. It actually shoots low at 100yards so one has to elevate the rear sight slightly (I would suspect a +2.5 or +3 would be perfect depending on what ammo you are running). The Swedish sight does not have the same contour as the German but it works just fine. You could re-contour the the sight and reblue it if you wanted. Of course, safely stash your original sight so you can restore the rifle to its original configuration.
 
Thanks for that information Jeff. I have already found some of those front sights since I read your post. To date, my solution has been to develop target loads which provide the perfect zero with a 6 o'clock hold on a military target.
 
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