Third Party Press

Two interesting photos

Pat

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Staff member
The following two photos were taken in what appears to be Serbia, and show Hilfspolizei and Serbian Staatswache personnel respectively with two types of captured weapons not usually found in period German photos. The Serb at the check point has a British No.1 Mk.III Enfield rifle, while the subject sitting has a French MAS 36.

While the weapon types are interesting enough, they also shed some light on the capability of the system(s) of acquisition, supply and distribution of captured weapons and ammunition. The nearest area to Serbia in which a captured Enfield would be acquired would be Greece, where a number of British and Commonwealth troops fought invading German and Italian troops in April 1941. The MAS would likely have been captured in May-June 1940, and in France itself. Despite the fairly well known confusion that plagued the German system of captured weapons utilization early on, these photos seem to suggest that it was possible to supply local, allied units with captured materiel that had originated far away, and even supply the correct type of ammunition for them. In the case of the MAS 7.5mm cartridges, those could have been supplied by either captured stores or from new production ammunition produced in Vichy- or even German-controlled France. In any case, they relied on long distance transport, in contrast to what's usually seen in photos from the east of local HiWis and others using captured Mosin-Nagants. One question I have is why they are using these two weapons systems when Yugoslavia had so many Mauser and Mannlicher rifles and carbines available for German (and presumably local) use? It's possible that those were shipped off for processing and use, creating a void which needed to be filled by bringing in weapons from other areas of occupied Europe.

Another question is how these were maintained. Were captured armorer's kits put to use? If so, what was their distribution? Depots only, or would they be in possession of mobile repair units? What about spare parts supply?

(Credit goes to 'Cegesoma' as the source of these photos)

Pat
 

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Interesting photo's and good points...this is an area (beuttewaffen) that really needs some in depth research, so many unanswered questions...

And such a fascinating subject. Sure everyone knows the major weapons of the major combatants, but what was used by all these various small units/forces in backwater areas and how they were so equipped is a very little known area...
 
One out of the box reason - issue weapons that don’t use locally available ammunition to control the ammunition supply and therefore use of these weapons or make them less desirable to guerrilla troops who may acquire them? For example- Imagine if someone dropped 5000 stg44’s in East LA. They would be useless to gang bangers. Just an idea.


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One out of the box reason - issue weapons that don’t use locally available ammunition to control the ammunition supply and therefore use of these weapons or make them less desirable to guerrilla troops who may acquire them? For example- Imagine if someone dropped 5000 stg44’s in East LA. They would be useless to gang bangers. Just an idea.


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Good point, it is one of the reasons for the single shot .410 shotgun conversions of Lee-Enfields in India...these were supplied to native Indian guard and police troops...converting them to single shot .410 (and these were not originally in .410 like we think of .410, these .410s were made from fire forming .303 brass into a straight walled case, and loading them as shotgun shells. These have to be chamber reamed by the importer so they can use regular American .410 shot shells, which have a longer OAL) meant that they would be difficult to turn on the British in case of a revolt. They were fine for thwarting a prison break, or controlling unarmed crowds, but the user wouldn't last long if they decided to turn on the Brits...
 

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