bnz 44 Single Claw

budp said:

Dave,,my SC also has a C stock.Bud

Click to expand...

I do not think either of mine are C proofed but I will take a peek .
Thats really Cool see You do learn something new from time to time
here . Just Kidding Guys . Gotta Love it here . LOL!!!!!!!!
Great to hear from You Bud!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

budp said:

Archie,my stock has the typical steyr eagle/h .I.E.tiny H,.I believe Hercules stock is a replacement.The stock should also have a checkered buttplate.Bud

Click to expand...

Bud I do know of an Early All Matching SC with Early BMJ that has Smooth Buttplate . Have You seen any SC with Smooth Buttplates or Do mean this one should have checkered because it a later SC . I do not think all SC have to have the Checkered Buttplate .At least not the ones made before 1944 . What do You think Bud . Regards Dave

Hercules said:

Dave,

The single claw on p.270 (bottom picture) in the Senich book has an eagle/large H on it. The C looks good in my opinion (There is a C in the barrel channel as well). Large bolt takedown disk did not appear in Sauer stock until later part of 1944. The gun is the way I bought it. I put it on here to compare it and learn more, because I am interested in this type of Mauser. I still really like it for what it is (I just bought it for fun).

Click to expand...

Hercules
I really do not think anyone is trying to Bash You or Your SC I have a Turret that is having the Bolt Questioned do I like this , I dislike the fact more that maybe something on one of my Rifles is in Question , but I would rather find out than keep thinking it is all correct . As You mentioned You came here to learn sometimes it may hurt a bit to learn and I really do not think its the learning or Rifle being Questioned that bothers people its more that maybe we got snookered or did not know as much as we thought or bought something that is not all correct . This is a great forum and none of these guys have ever pulled any punches that I would bring to Question . Is there sometimes thing out of the norm sure , but that is when you really need to look at things objectively . And as You said you like Your SC for what it is , thats what really matters to You . I really enjoy the learning part of collecting and I have learned a great deal over the past 15yrs . There was a lot of things that were assumed to be Correct when Senich and Law wrote their books that have been proved other wise since the Computer Age exploded
Best Regards & Good Collecting to All .

No doubt, it's a real single claw- thats important!

Hercules said:

Dave,

I have a question. Does a C stock refer to any subcontracted stock(possibly Sauer for a bnz gun). I know the new book mentions one contractor (Tischfabrifabrik Hermann Menzel). Is this contractor common knowledge or an educated guess. Thanks.

Click to expand...

Hercules , Honestly Mike , Bruce or Craig could give You a more detailed and Exact answer than Myself
So I will defer to one of these three or someone else who could better aswer this for You .

Hercules, your scope has a recoil ring, which were made for LSR. I have bmj 85225, it is a three piece scope with sunshade for LSR. All bmj scopes in this SN range were made for LSR. If you look on the underside of the front ocular there should be a hole where screw for sunshade fits in (maybe it has been closed by the person who sold you this rifle). Looking closer on the mounts of your scope it does appear to me that they might be with high probability not genuine, given the new bluing witout any faults. I am afraid someone had a system or gun with steyr mounts and tried to organize the rest to complete a sniper rifle. I do not want to make an item bad, but I do not want to be possibly made up thing declared to be original.

This is bmj 85225. I know the last bmj with steyr mounts between 74xxx and 76xxx. From 83xxx all with recoil rings.

I think many would like to see my databases. I am working on a book, but still have not decided whether to publish the databases, since so far they are still a means to detect fakes. When published they are just a means to fakers to become better. However, I would be glad to see whether bmj 85229 has no hole on the underside on front ocular and no thread... maybe you could make some pics as well.

For me there is much to see. Unfortunately I cannot personally inspect it. I will wait and see if more data emerges, before I draw a conclusion. Thank you very much, Paul

I believe and will continue to believe unless more proof comes to light which I think will be not likely because of the info on these BMJ Scope with Recoil Rings and Sunshades were made for LSR Mounts and also if they have the Sunshade these Scopes can not be tilted forward and removed from Rifle as theSunshade hits rear Sight and prevents removal . Also the few Scopes I have seen that are with Recoil Ring and Sunshade that are on SC Rifles all fall in Ser# Range for LSR Mounts & Rifle . Also if some wanted to use this Ser Range BMJ Scope the Sunshade unscrews and is Very easy to change over . To me there really is not
enough proof to strengthen this argument . When I first started Collecting I too had this same thought after seeing the Photo in Senich Book of SC with this type of BMJ Scope with Recoil Ring and Sunshade . Then I started hearing and looking at same type of arguments and opinions I mention and saw I was incorrect in my thoughts , but thats me . Each is welcome to ther opinion . Best Regards

i am a new member at this forum.i signed up yesterday.i have enjoyed reading through this thread.
i have been studying and collecting data on european scopes and mounts for over 30 years.when senich's first paper back book came out in the late 1970s some photos of a single claw with LSR scope.later when i got my own bnz single claw rifle i began to reevaluate that scope used on the bnz single claw rifle.first all the other scopes used with the various types of claw mounts have no fixed sunshades.second the tube diameter of the bmj LSR type scope is larger in diameter than the earlier bmj scopes used with the bnz single claw rifle.the single claw rings are bored to be a close fit to the 26.5mm scope tubes of the earlier bmj and zielvier scopes so the original rings would need to be bored out to the diameter of the bmj LSR scope tube.then the rings would not be compatable with the earlier 26.5mm scopes.
my own Ziess Zielvier #78690 is a triangle marked scope for the bnz SC rifle.i was also wondering about the use of the Zielvier on the bnz SC rifle until i saw the same war photo shown on this thread a couple of years ago.zielvier #78690 also happens to be the earliest triangle marked Zielvier in my zielvier data.

Hercules said:

Dave,

This scope never had a sun shade on it. The Germans never had a list of scope serial numbers that I am aware of. That is something some collectors have been using to try to categorize and avoid pitfalls in some cases. If this scope had sun shade it would be hard to remove from the gun, but it does not. I wish I could talk someone into publishing this list of serial numbers. I would be interested in seeing it. I would like to know the number ranges for the SC, Turret, and LSR (for the various different scopes). I have been looking for a Turret and LSR sniper that I like. I would like to know so I can make up my own mind. I am not saying the serial number comparison is completely wrong, but I am saying they are not totally right. I know of a another BMJ scope in this serial range with a recoil ring and no sun shade installed on another SC. Good to hear from you Dave. Thanks.

Hercules

Click to expand...

Hercules
If You Have Any of the Sniper Books Look at Law Sniper Book and Robert Spielauers Book
and see for Yourself what the Serial Ranges fall into of the Scope in Question look at LSR`s and Single Claw`s in each book You should be able to see Your Scope is not in Correct serial Range for Your Rifle . You should be able to tell this just from the few Examples in the Books . Also many long time Collectors are all telling You the same thing .
Best Regards . By the Way Wlcome C.P. Goerz

Hay guys,I'm brand new to this forum and was wondering if anyone has seen the single claw sniper rifle for sale on gun broker.

Hercules said:

There are a lot of fake snipers and the single claw currently on gun broker looks like one. Just my opinion.

Brian

Click to expand...

Agreed. The bases and mounts are reproduction, with fake serial number stampings added. The mounts do not have the proper hand-filed edges, serial numbers are too small, etc., etc.

HI Brian,and Thank You very much I had a feeling it was a bad one,just not sure.I know the old saying for every good one there are 10 bad ones.How about the ones that come up at rock island during auction,are they usually good ones or buyer beware ones.Your single claw is beautiful,nice pic of it......Duane

single claw scope

here is one I recently saw sell for 2600.00 At least its real..

claw mount

Nice pic's of the claw mount and scope thank you.I will take you up on the offer to help me Brian,I have been looking off and on for about 5 yrs. I don't know why i just really like the single claw mount system.Or maybe it was because my father had one when i was a kid in the 1960's that he used for deer hunting.GOD I wish I had that gun today,all matching and right out of Germany from the war...

Duane Gregory said:

Nice pic's of the claw mount and scope thank you.I will take you up on the offer to help me Brian,I have been looking off and on for about 5 yrs. I don't know why i just really like the single claw mount system.Or maybe it was because my father had one when i was a kid in the 1960's that he used for deer hunting.GOD I wish I had that gun today,all matching and right out of Germany from the war...

Click to expand...

Duane
I have to Agree with You Completely the SC Sniper in my opinion is the Most Aesthetically Appealing of all the WWII German Sniper Rifles . Always has been and Always will be my Favorite . Best Regards

Also I like the SC Sniper very much , not only for the looking but also for his noble pedigree : the single claw mount is the son of the mounting sistem adopted from the austro-hungarian army in WWI for the Steyr M95 (like the one in my avatar )

Buckplate

Dave Roberts said:

Here are the Pics of My SC Sniper Rifle

Click to expand...

Hello mr roberts, may I ask you if the ribbed shaft cap (buckplate) on the bnz with the single claw assembly was common? And one more question please. What does the inside of the buckplate look like? Is that smooth or even fluted?
With kind regards