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Thread: Zf4 rig authentic?

  1. #1
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    Default Zf4 rig authentic?

    I picked this up off eBay. You guys may have seen or watched the auction. I thought a decent buy at $810 considering it does have a nice original zf4 to boot. Seller claims the mount is original but the locking lever/bolt/spring/and release button are replacements and he stated so in the listing. Mount is 359 acceptance marked but unnumbered. I do have a couple original numbered 359 marked mounts already and so far I think the mount is legit , but thatís why Iím asking for input from this knowledgeable group. Mounts are tricky business. So, does the mount itself look original? Although not the main reason I bought it that sunshade might have possibilities too. Although the zf4 wasnít properly mounted in these images I have since fixed that and the mount fits like a glove on my K43....and the sunshade fits as it should too. Thoughts?


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    Last edited by Joseph Burke; 12-19-2018 at 01:59 PM.

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    Beavis the Cornholio mdarnell19's Avatar
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    This is a tough one. My initial thought is it is an original scope mount. It looks like it might have had some bad pitting and someone refinished it. The color and texture of the mount are off but overall shape is correct. I think it might have been numbered. I see what looks the remanents of a 4.

    Itís either that or a very close fake.

  3. #3
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    I am leaning towards an original mount that has been re-parkerized. The sun shade, at least one band and the mount have evidence of corrosion and perhaps the original rifle number was removed or is corroded off, but the finish on all three is almost mint. With the replacement parts and the mint finish, I would say 'yes original' but 'restored/refinished'. Just my honest opinion but still a good buy with the scope. A repro mount and original scope sold yesterday on Ebay for $750 so you still did well.
    Last edited by agentcq; 12-21-2018 at 09:43 AM.

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    When I saw this auction, my gut was that it was a ground dug/ relic mount with replaced bits. I still feel this is the case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sturmgrenadier View Post
    When I saw this auction, my gut was that it was a ground dug/ relic mount with replaced bits. I still feel this is the case.
    It isnít in relic condition, but rather has a slightly more pitted surface that the other two originals that I have, which also have Walther acceptance stamps and are of the same late war design. It also hasnít had any grinding anywhereóno numbers have been ground offóóit has never been serialized. One knowledgeable person has suggested that it was a previously rejected mount because of the pitting but later put into service very late in the war. That is a very logical reasoning and serves to explain the lack of a serial.


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  6. #6
    Senior Member rpf2697's Avatar
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    The mount is authentic....I'd say it was re-finished post war. It is a "rejected" mount pushed into service late in the war. MP

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    How does the addition of repop parts to an authentic mount signal late war expediency? Late war / rejected mounts may have a mix of characterstics, but one thing is for sure, they'd have original parts. I stated that the base mount was original, that wasn't at issue to me; my concern was the sellers disclosure of the added reproduction parts to make it whole. I don't consider it an insult to say it may be a ground dug/ relic mount, it's my opinion. There is an authentic original mount sitting on eBay right now for 200$, it's intact, and missing the very same items your mount has had replaced. The crude finish of a zf4 mount, by nature, would lend itself to media blasting/ stripping without damaging the metal's original rough surface.

  8. #8
    Beavis the Cornholio mdarnell19's Avatar
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    I don't believe this scope mount was used on a rifle. It would have been numbered to a rifle had it been issued with one. This was the practice until the very end of production. Unnumbered mounts are merely mounts captured at the factory before being fitted to rifles. I have even seen scope mounts that were sent to the field as replacements (which is what everyone thinks their unnumbered mount is) and these were numbered to rifles in an electric pencil type fashion.

    As a general rule, German practice was to number scope mounts and/or scopes to the rifle they were being fitted to.
    Last edited by mdarnell19; 12-20-2018 at 12:51 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sturmgrenadier View Post
    How does the addition of repop parts to an authentic mount signal late war expediency? Late war / rejected mounts may have a mix of characterstics, but one thing is for sure, they'd have original parts. I stated that the base mount was original, that wasn't at issue to me; my concern was the sellers disclosure of the added reproduction parts to make it whole. I don't consider it an insult to say it may be a ground dug/ relic mount, it's my opinion. There is an authentic original mount sitting on eBay right now for 200$, it's intact, and missing the very same items your mount has had replaced. The crude finish of a zf4 mount, by nature, would lend itself to media blasting/ stripping without damaging the metal's original rough surface.
    You wouldn't have a link to this auction would you?

    Still a nice mount even if refinished, especially as the purchaser has some other nice original mount sets. This stuff just isn't getting easy or cheap to find. I know there are multiple 'elite' collectors on this forum that only have 'mint crisp' examples within their collection, but I am always about having good representatives that perhaps can be improved upon later. Way nicer than a repro mount by far!!!!

  10. #10
    Senior Member GunKraut's Avatar
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    Unless it has been ground dug and heavily refinished, I'm leaning towards good repro. It has rough spots were you should see milling and drilling marks.
    Wouldn't use this one as it appears cracked around the threaded screw hole in the bottom.

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