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Kahles H4X60 High Turret Sauer Scope

IMHO it would not be wise to rule out the possibility that the Scope was originally used as HT Scope the Serial is 40803 . Yes it outside of typical 41XXX Range HT Scopes ,but it is also very close to 41000 range .

I recall a discussion not long ago about blc Zeiss being used on HT and some were saying not original it is suspect . The Rifle was BYF43 k suffix , after careful observations and some new info it was learned that this was right at the change over from LT to HT . All I am saying is one should leave possibilities open , If this one exists another may also exist with 408XX or 409XX . Best Regards
 
Dave Roberts said:
IMHO it would not be wise to rule out the possibility that the Scope was originally used as HT Scope the Serial is 40803 . Yes it outside of typical 41XXX Range HT Scopes ,but it is also very close to 41000 range .

I recall a discussion not long ago about blc Zeiss being used on HT and some were saying not original it is suspect . The Rifle was BYF43 k suffix , after careful observations and some new info it was learned that this was right at the change over from LT to HT . All I am saying is one should leave possibilities open , If this one exists another may also exist with 408XX or 409XX . Best Regards
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Yes I agree.
 
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Hercules said:
The lowest Kahles High Turret Scope I have on my serial list is 407XX.
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This is one of the reasons , I would like to see more collaboration between collectors here in the USA and those collectors in Europe . IMHO we will never get a near complete serial study till this happens as theres much missing from both places . Until this happens all one can do is keep collecting info . Best Regards
 
Dave Roberts said:
This is one of the reasons , I would like to see more collaboration between collectors here in the USA and those collectors in Europe . IMHO we will never get a near complete serial study till this happens as theres much missing from both places . Until this happens all one can do is keep collecting info . Best Regards
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I also have recorded a couple of other Kahles H4X60 High Turret Scopes near this one as well. All from different sources. Ill bet others have more as well.
 
Nigromontanus said:
Jägerspende was called at the end of 1942. If a scope was turned in it has of course to be modified to military specifications.
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I do not share your opinion.
They did not modify the scopes shown in their 5/43 manual. Why would they modify any scope from the Jägerspende?
 

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In 5/43 not that much modification was needed. No sunhades yes, no recoil rings,... but when you look close on the Zielsechs you note that the dial is numbered 1-8. And this is a modification.

Well, my database with Kahles scopes is definitely too small in the 40xxx area. Anyway, as it seems, there are inconsistencies within the Kahles sniper scopes.
 
Nigromontanus said:
In 5/43 not that much modification was needed. No sunhades yes, no recoil rings,... but when you look close on the Zielsechs you note that the dial is numbered 1-8. And this is a modification.
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The range markings are an additional marking, but no modification!
From my point of view, a modification would have been the addition of the sun/rain shield or the abolition of the focus adjustment.
They did not alter anything on the scopes, they only applied the range markings.

Espeholt's serial# study bears some mistakes/errors, but nonetheless it is not bad for basic trend studies.

Even from my very limited knowledge about WWII scopes, I dare to say, that scopes from the Jägerspende never had range markings from 1-8.
Prove me wrong.

Thanks
and a Happy New Year! to you guys out there.
 
Amberg said:
Even from my very limited knowledge about WWII scopes, I dare to say, that scopes from the Jägerspende never had range markings from 1-8.
Prove me wrong.
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This might have changed with the introduction of the very late SSR and military contract Kahles scopes with recoil ring/bar. But I do not know if they still had some scopes from the Jägerspende on stock at that time.
A more detailed study of early scopes with recoil ring/bar seems necessary.
Maybe Vaughn99 can add some insights.
 
Brian, do you remember if the sun shade was painted white or if it was a different kind of finish? My H/4x60 on HT does have the black paint on the sunshade.

Sauer did not consecutively use dkl+ scopes on any of their mounts. Maybe this also does not apply for Kahles scopes?

Order to stop Sauer making SSR mounts was given on 29th October 1943. At this point they already made turret mounts too.
 
Absolut said:
Brian, do you remember if the sun shade was painted white or if it was a different kind of finish? My H/4x60 on HT does have the black paint on the sunshade.

Sauer did not consecutively use dkl+ scopes on any of their mounts. Maybe this also does not apply for Kahles scopes?

Order to stop Sauer making SSR mounts was given on 29th October 1943. At this point they already made turret mounts too.
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Georg
The Sunshade was in the White/Bare Cast Zinc . If one wants to be technical it had No Finish applied to outside only Black Paint on inside the Sunshade Outside was Bare , Cast Zinc or Monkey Metal . There was absolutely no trace of Paint , Black or Otherwise on Outer Sunshade . The new owner also holds this opinion after examining it in hand . Best Regards
 
Absolut said:
Brian, do you remember if the sun shade was painted white or if it was a different kind of finish? My H/4x60 on HT does have the black paint on the sunshade.

Sauer did not consecutively use dkl+ scopes on any of their mounts. Maybe this also does not apply for Kahles scopes?

Order to stop Sauer making SSR mounts was given on 29th October 1943. At this point they already made turret mounts too.
Click to expand...

Hello Georg. It was not painted or paint worn off.
 
I agree with Dave that it was never painted. Here is an example of another Kahles H4x60 in the same serial number range that also has no signs of paint being applied to the sun shade. I'd be curious to see if others have examples they can show.

And I agree with the point I believe Georg is making. That is that scopes were not used in a first in first out system.

Kahles H4x60 (3).JPGKahles H4x60 (2).JPGKahles H4x60 (7).JPGKahles H4x60 (5).JPG
 
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Zinc has to be painted inmediately after production. My best guess is that these were painted both on the inside and outside, then finish was milled off from the outside, at least it has to be done this way since there is no finish at the front too. Maybe they were also oversize and Sauer did this at the beginning (or they didn't like the matte finish and tried to blue it or attach a high glossy finish?). You can clearly see the difference of the surface finish on the broken off part on the inside (greyish where originally black paint was) and the creme white on the outside. I however do not think this should had been a kind of Winter camouflage.
 
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