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Thread: Book about Weimar Simson 98s?

  1. #1
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    Default Book about Weimar Simson 98s?

    Just got a book about Simson Lugers and would now like a good book on the Weimar Era Simson 98s, anybody have suggestions?

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    Senior Member flynaked's Avatar
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    Volume 1 has great info on them. Storz’s books might be another one, not sure how far into Weimar he goes?

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    Moderator² Loewe's Avatar
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    Storz book has next to nothing on Simson, even less on the Republican era, a couple pages. Really, unless you are a researcher or a serious student of the rifles, it is best to save your money with Storz Modell98.

    Vol. I has more than any other volume regarding the Republican era, though there are a number of collector grade books that are worth reading. Though probably not worth buying for the few pages involved. For about 20 years I have collected every scrap of material written on Simson/BSW, quite a few advertisements, invoices, magazine articles, private publications, you name it, and collectively it fits in a file binder that if i cut the pages out of Storz and collector books would weigh a couple or three pounds. Most of the best stuff made it into Vol.I, but there is no book on Simson worth buying. The P08 book is ok, gives a good outline, but seemingly ignores the importance of rifle production, which is kind of stupid as they made a lot more rifles than pistols. But, that is the way things are for P08 collectors, they have some of the best researchers, they have the most resources also, but they rarely consider rifle production in any calculation and generally ignore the other aspects of the company. HK and Simson are great examples, HK made so few pistols compared to everything else they made that their P08 production was meaningless, yet you would think reading P08 collectors comments that they made nothing else.

    Anyway, Simson's armaments production in the Republican era was important to the company, but probably not what they really wanted to be involved in, nor was it all important. They made a large list of products and i think it was Jan Still's book that showed a display of it all. If i can find it I will post it (most period advertising was for bicycles and commercial items, like baby carriages, cars and motorcycles, - though they sold commercial firearms also.)

    BTW, Dugger, I saw your WTB or trade for a Simson/24, as far as I know only four are known, maybe 5 if MarkW owns one. DaveD owns the finest (and earliest), fat chance he parts with it in his lifetime. I own #890 (barreled receiver & sights) and two others #371 that Joe Steen once discussed (not sure it actually exists, but he drew a datasheet for it) and #1738 was a sporter butchered job. So not likely you will find one, though I would sell mine if I thought you would restore it properly. Of course I would want a good price for it as it is probably one of the rarest maker-dates 1898-1945, - off hand I can't think of a production range of under 1700 rifles for any other maker-date, other than BSW/36.

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    No War Eagles For You! mrfarb's Avatar
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    Default Book about Weimar Simson 98s?

    Yes, I covered 98b production in Volume 1, but it’s never enough. Personally I’d love to see someone do a book dedicated to the Weimar era. What I did in Weimar era is what I consider an outline, there is a lot of cool stuff happening in the era between the wars. Simpson was a big part of rifle production but was by no means the only game in town. Most of what I used came from Paul and Lockhoven’s lifetimes of data accumulation graciously given to me for that chapter. It’s probably the only thing you will find on Simson, probably about 10-15 pages? Been a while.


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    Pm sent Lowe! And thank you all for the info. I don't think I could learn that anywhere else on the internet.

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    When I bought mine it was at the old Houston Texas gun show, early 1980s, and prices were very very reasonable. I think, if memory serves me right, I paid a whopping $200.00 for it from Dennis Gerardi / I did not know at the time what I had scored.

    It just caught my eye and the price was right.......

    I'll dig it out and post photos if you desire.

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    RKI- Reasonably Knowledgable Individual heavy_mech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveDavis View Post
    ..I'll dig it out and post photos if you desire.
    Absolutely! Let's see what that 200 bought you.
    "Wen Tausend einen Mann erschlagen, das ist nicht Ruhm, das ist nicht Ehre, denn beinsen wird's in späteren tagen gesiegt hat doch das Deutsch Heer. Podest nicht die Paten der Soldaten doner die da Sterben sollen, soll man geben was sie wollen, sahs sie Herzen, sahs sie Küssen, den sie wissen nicht wann sie sterben müssen"

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    Please do post pictures!

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    Moderator² Loewe's Avatar
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    Absolutely Dave, I would love to see more pictures of it also, I have some you posted before, but as your rifle is the earliest and finest known, it is useful to see anything of the rifle, even if duplicate views.

    #371 was a well worn rifle, reportedly in a house fire in the late 1970's. Bob stated that it was at the other end of the house from the fire and may have survived with little damage. Other than Joe Steen's datasheet, really just a drawing of the B/R markings, we know little about its condition, though Bob stated it was well used like most 98b's.

    I will post pictures of #890 later, maybe in another post, it was a typical Albanian import from the 1990's, got it in a trade from PeterK for G98 muzzle covers, 6 of them which is roughly $600 back then. Had it for over a decade, but I only kept the B/R as the stock was G98M and a beater. Peter included a well worn 98b stock in the trade but I do not have it now.

    #1738 looks like an original rifle sportered, cut original stock, shallacked, drilled with scope added, but TG group/bolt match-original. Got pictures of it off my websites well over a decade ago. The high serial (1738) is probably misleading, going from comparisons, the year flips over lap on rifles and obviously as Simson serialed consecutive without rollover, the end year turn overs will mix receiver dates. We see this in 1925-1926 also. Essentially it is unlikely 1738 Simson/24's were made, but probably close. 1926 "dated" are very hard to find also. 1925 is very common and you have to go to the e-f blocks to find a more common "variation" (I group Simson 98b by marking changes, dated years, then variations to characteristics, often the style of the "S" on the receiver, not by suffix, though that would be valid also)

    So, that is the extent of known (to me) Simson/1924's. MarkW almost certainly could add to known rifles, but he doesn't piddle online with his research.

    #890 below, these are old pictures and i haven't taken recent pictures of the BR. What was original I kept, which includes the RS (RS sleeve e/6, the base and scale 1930's replacements though serialed to match in typical style - very common as you never see "original" pre-1927 or so RS's, I think all rifles upgraded 1919-1925 or whatever were upgraded again during the rearmament program 1932-1939, I say 1939 as they pretty much stopped making G98 parts around that time)
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    ax - hole Warrior1354's Avatar
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    Been studying Simson and Gustloff rifles for many years now but I have yet to even own a single Simson made rifle yet! They are tough to find matching, without problems, and in good condition. Believe I know, not to mention not many folks want to let them go. Which I can't say I blame them either almost any Weimer era Simson rifle is rare. In four years I have seen one Kar98b for sale. But sadly it was drilled and tap for a weird scope mount. Saw that rifle at the 2018 SOS show, if its there again next month I will record the serial number and letter block for data.

    Paul I have been in contact with some older collectors that may have some documents and pictures about German arms production. If something turns up I'll be in contact with you.
    "Don't use your musket if you can kill 'em with your hatchet"

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