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Thread: K98k with SEM Saddle mount ("objective mount")

  1. #11
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    Thatís a better picture thanks for the detail, Iím not seeing the proof remnants but such things can be hard to photograph for sure, the presence of a proof is beside my point however. Perhaps I didnít explain my reasoinging well, but after seeing more detail with this picture I have to return to my prior statement, I believe the receiver was ground before the mount went on, that was the whole basis for my point. Seeing as this is a Borsigwalde you can compare exact proof and serial locations and the numbering would have fallen nearly level with the edge of the saddle that would make for a very obvious serial removal if done AFTER the saddle was mounted. That is my whole point on the subject.

    Notice the same kind of numbering/ proof location on Daveís, imagine trying to grind/file those away while in direct contact with the attached saddle, it wouldnít be pretty.

  2. #12
    Is that a scope you have in your pocket?
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    Quote Originally Posted by banjomike View Post
    I have a similar K98. I checked for serial numbers on the rear mount and see none. The front mount seems unmovable, so I could not check. The rifle is a bolt MM and came with capture papers. With it came Russian TOZ 35 22 cal. rifle on the same papers. I would be nice to have Dave Roberts check it as he is a local NH person. Regards Banjomike
    Hi Mike
    If You want to set a time for me to come up and have a look I would be happy to do so . Best Regards .

  3. #13
    Beavis the Cornholio mdarnell19's Avatar
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    There are three proofs on the side of the receiver. Looks like maybe 26?

    InkedIMG_4422_LI.jpg

  4. #14
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    Yes indeed Matt, thatís why I was saying itís a Borsigwalde.

  5. #15
    Is that a scope you have in your pocket?
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    Quote Originally Posted by flynaked View Post
    Itís a 1941 Borsigwalde which probably explains the prefix of ďARĒ in the serial. Having serialized bases doesnít necessarily point to anything military about it, likely just used for the tracking of handfit parts of which there are many in an SEM. The claws alone have 24 hand fit surfaces in an SEM. There were many such sporters built out of ex military and often out of rejected military parts, the lack of any commercial proofs could mean it was some kind of total basement job, not really sure there. Is it simply the sighting groove down the saddle giving the impression of military? Otherwise there are lots of other saddle mounted SEMís out there on commercial hunting rifles.
    IMHO , this Barreled Action and Bases are Military put together as apposed to a Basement Job . The best evidence for this is the direction on the screw slots on rear base which are inline with Barrel and the screws slots not being all buggered up help prove this fact Every one of these Rifles I know of that are original have this distinct screw installation method screw slots are always inline with barrel . Up to this point there are 3 known Rifle Manufacturers which were used for these Rifles Sauer , BLM and BSW , there could be others types but I am not aware of any .

    I will point out one thing that no one else seemed to have picked up on , the Rear Base on Georg`s Barreled Action is different in one respect from my 2 Rifles . Look at Middle Grove Machined my Rear Bases . Georg`s has No Groove .
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  6. #16
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    Thanks for weighing in on it Dave. Do you think contour prepping of the receiver to the point of serial removal before base installation might have been a possibility in military trim? This is my sole point of reasoning/point of contention with the rifle. The vise marks on the receiver are also a point of concern, sure they might be from the secondary sporterizing/ removal of the model designation but who knows.

    Prior military acceptance while a good sign for the validation of the rifle also doesnít prove it either, many makers in Thuringia built sporters out of previously accepted military actions/barreled actions, even during the war. I might have one myself although I canít prove it because there are no visible military proofs, it is built on an Astrawerke receiver though, and built in the fall of 1943. I have seen others though where no effort was made to remove the military proofing but of course have additional commercial proofing. Seeing rifles like that utilizing current military arms components make it hard to make calls on rifles like this (to me) because who is to say that even the bases werenít a rejected item and up for grabs to the many small makers in the area. As to the screw alignment, that seems to be fairly standard practice on SEM mounts from what Iíve seen on the commercial side, hereís a picture of one of mine for instance. As far as details
    on military SEMís I canít comment on specifics as I believe every one I have seen was yours!
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdarnell19 View Post
    There are three proofs on the side of the receiver. Looks like maybe 26?
    I have even mentioned that in my starting posts that it has 26 proofs on the receiver. Didn't you read it? Anyway, does this distinctively mean it is an AR41 rifle?

    Flynaked, noone would scrub the receiver markings that ugly and then fully professionally add perfectly seated and screw slot aligned bases. This makes no sense. The bases were installed prior to the receiver being scrubbed.

    Dave, thanks for pointing out the sighting line on your bases. The other SEM mounted K98k rifles you are aware of, do they have this slot too? And additionally, your rear scope base is serialized facing towards the front. Does this mean it does NOT have the serial number on bottom of the catch/release as on mine? That would then be another difference. Have you ever removed the dovetailed part of the front scope and compared the serial number there? And would you be able to measure the front dovetailed part in height, width and length (on bottom) so I can compare it with mine? Your rifle is a 1938 rifle, right? Maybe we now really have found the two variants (Army and SS).

  8. #18
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    Took out the DSLR and did higher quality pics after having quickly brushed off some of the dirt .. Due to the amount of pics I'll have to split it into seperate posts since I can only post 10 pictures per post.
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  9. #19
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    Maybe the biggest surprise was after detailed checking the receiver with the front claw base removed that the receiver nevertheless has been milled flat on top too. This will also be the reason why the base is not only soldered, but also screwed two times. I'm 100% sure they first properly prepared the receiver (you still can see the file markings), soldered and screwed the saddle in place and then in ONE SINGLE STEP milled the dovetail for the front claw base.
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  10. #20
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    Finally the last picture. All dimensions shown are in metric system. The paper background has 5mm squares, what therefore means the dovetailed part is exactly 20 mm long and around 27 mm broad with a height of 5.3 mm. Dave, it would be highly appreciated if you could take off dimensions from your front claw base of your rifle.
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