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Thread: Deposit of weapons in Russia

  1. #21
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    Even if there's a load of k98's and they're all RC Mixmasters I still think it's a shame if they were all melted down.If they were sold worldwide it would give a chance for more people to get into collecting rifles.Everyone has to start somewhere and where I am even RC's aren't plentiful.I must say i do like the idea of selling some to African and middle East hellholes so they can wipe themselves out.

  2. #22
    aka 8x57IS Stephan98k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loewe View Post
    Really though, these weapons have plenty of customers that could buy them, probably not so much for collectors (as they are refinished total mismatched garbage they are worthless to a collector)[/B])
    You know, I appreciate and usually I share your opinion, in this case I see it a little different. For a collector these weapons are worthless in most cases, but in some cases collectors can temporarily fill a gap in their collection with such a piece. Without the RC BSW 1936 we wouldn't know about the 1936 production at BSW and I would be happy to have such a example in my collection. Also for the researchers these RCs can be interesting for their trend work, at least serial number ranges, barrel codes and acceptance pattern are still useful. I look forward to rare birds as example Kriegsmarine Depot Builds, because even a RC helps a lot for the research in this area.

    Regards,
    Stephan

  3. #23
    Moderator² Loewe's Avatar
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    I do not disagree, there are instances where an rc has merit in a collection. I too would welcome seeing a BSW/36, even a ERMA/35 or BLM/36, - it's a fact most known are rc's or like rifles.

    I also agree that research is advanced by these rifles, at least the most basic elements, serial ranges, BC and acceptance patterns.

    I have nothing against people "collecting" them, enjoying them, or even "saving" them, what I object too is collectors that should know better passing them off as investments or as rifles that have some special allure to them, some "Stalingrad" rifle or Superman rifle at some KL, as though that would merit some special interest (only a psychopath would find enjoyment collecting KL garbage...)

    Anyway, really I have nothing against people that collect rc's, - people can collect piss bottles or used chewing gum for all i care, however on a "collector's forum" I think it is inappropriate to mislead new collectors down this path. They may find it on their own, then whatever, but I do not want to see this forum turn into a platform advancing rc's, rifles that are total mismatches and refinished. Three decades ago refinished or mismatched equated to shooter, together they equate to basically a accumulation of parts or a truck/barn gun.

    Quote Originally Posted by 8x57IS View Post
    You know, I appreciate and usually I share your opinion, in this case I see it a little different. For a collector these weapons are worthless in most cases, but in some cases collectors can temporarily fill a gap in their collection with such a piece. Without the RC BSW 1936 we wouldn't know about the 1936 production at BSW and I would be happy to have such a example in my collection. Also for the researchers these RCs can be interesting for their trend work, at least serial number ranges, barrel codes and acceptance pattern are still useful. I look forward to rare birds as example Kriegsmarine Depot Builds, because even a RC helps a lot for the research in this area.

    Regards,
    Stephan

  4. #24
    Moderator² Loewe's Avatar
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    I wouldn’t characterize any communist country as a ponzi scheme, or any totalitarian or authoritarian regime for that matter… even giving the Chinese version of communism some latitude, due to its mixed economic compromises (because communism doesn’t work and can never work in its pure form, - it defies human nature and exists through extortion and murder, as does all socialistic forms of government ultimately…at its core it is slavery) it still operates primarily on coercion and violence. You conform and submit or you are killed or imprisioned. There is certainly indoctrination, deception and perhaps deceit on the individual level (efforts to get the individual Chinese man to "buy" into a "collective" society, where everyone is "equal" and working for the "greater good") but once a communistic society evolves to a state such as China has, there isn't a great deal of deceit, little to no trickery, luring or insincerity to "buy into" or "invest" into the system (most people "buy into" or "invest" what they are born into, are raised to believe, like sheep they conform with the herd willingly). Nothing compared to what a capitalistic society tries to "sell" the average man or woman. The Chinese certainly use “ponzi scheme” characteristics on corporations and governmental organizations to advance their ideology, but this is no different than what Lenin and Stalin did through the 1920’s and 1930’s to gain economic advantage. German and US concerns made many financial and industrial deals that ultimately made the USSR into a super power, huge trade deals and engineering projects were conducted with German and US engineers and financing, - how that turned out should give pause to any dealings with modern China.

    Speaking of ponzi schemes, I find attaching such a label to China, especially someone in America or the west somewhat ridiculous, - the greatest ponzi scheme in recorded human history is being conducted in the US and Western Europe, specifically social security and Medicare and all the other government inspired “welfare” programs that are being supported by an even larger ponzi scheme called the Federal Reserve, ECB and all the other central banks that are propping up these schemes by printing money without any basis in reality (buying securities governments can’t sell, manipulation of interest rates, printing money etc.. all of which harm the average man and benefit the well connected and large banks/corporations). Even the Chinese aren’t stupid enough or gullible enough to “invest” more than a trillion dollars in US securities. Chump change when this country is spending billions and trillions in wars around the globe and doling out foreign aid through borrowing. The biggest suckers are by and large our “allies” (who possess individually as much as China, collectively many times over - The English and Japan hold nearly as much each) and the American investor (your retirement funds) who will be holding the bag when the music stops… just like 1923 Germany which destroyed the middle class and gave rise to Hitler.

    Fundamentally China works on a very primitive level, they are running massive debt ratios also, ridiculously high in fact, but it is all meaningless because a communistic regime ultimately doesn’t take any of this seriously. They play the long game and they deal with human beings on a very primitive level (Mao buried and burned people alive, Lenin and Stalin were at least as barbaric as Hitler), these regimes ultimately exist on a very primitive level, they look at humans as a commodity (labor as capital), they are animals, there is no dealing with them, it is pointless to bargain with them, some numbers on a computer screen mean nothing, - they are Scythians, Parthians - they are in the system for advantage, when the advantage of being in is outweighed by the cost they will say screw you and work some mefo scheme or other bilateral trade deals/clearing agreement (Hitler did this and China and Russia are already doing this today) outside of the “international” cartels (controlled by the US elite and the west) designed to control people and smaller states. Ultimately they will take what they need or want; they will turn back human progress and history three millennia.


    Quote Originally Posted by capt14k View Post
    China is one giant Ponzi Scheme whose economy is completely dependent on the American Consumer. Plus they lack any natural resources other the coal. They don’t even have enough water. China is now taking their case to the WTO because they know Trump can crush them with tariffs and a trade war.


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  5. #25
    Senior Member tjg79's Avatar
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    I wonder if they've got any 8mm ammo stockpiled over there that they could dump on the surplus market?

  6. #26
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    Yes Federal Reserve and institutions you mentioned are a similar Ponzi scheme but China has built entire empty cities to keep their Ponzi Scheme going. They manipulate their currency at will. The bottomline is China is nothing without the American Consumer.


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  7. #27
    Moderator² Loewe's Avatar
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    An American consumer that is broke and borrowing to sustain a standard of living undeserved. Essentially borrowing on a legacy earned by our fathers and grandfather and their grandfathers, and being squandered on meaningless trinkets designed to distract. What does China make that is worth buying, - not speaking of all the garbage China makes for American companies, which are made to the companies specifications and designed only to work beyond the return window... hardly the Chinese fault. (100 years ago "made in Germany" meant cheap and low quality, the same is probably true of China, they potentially can make quality given the time and stolen technology... a technology they are eventually likely to equal the west if they haven't already, - again German companies of the 1890's were charged with theft of English and American technology, and eventually they went beyond their competitors, in time the Chinese will also)

    Time is not the west's friend, especially with the suicidal immigration numbers. Diversity in populations are never a good thing, they are a dangerous thing, for thousands of years this has destroyed empires. It creates divisions opportunist exploit, - and politicians are the worst type of opportunists, they create nothing and taint everything they touch. In time China will become a super Germany (1848-1945), numbers (or signatures) on paper, massive boondoggles (something popular in Germany but it never stopped them), and isolation/limit resources can never harness an industrious and unified people (Germany and Japan too were resource poor countries, Germany rich only in coal and iron ore, much of it low grade - their solution to limited resources, under despotic leaders under pressure, was conquest). Especially when their opponents are from a decadent and immoral culture or society.

  8. #28
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    I agree China makes nothing but junk. One of the reasons my customers use me is I only deal in American or German made products. Down to the smallest fitting.

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  9. #29
    That Guy Millertime6289's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loewe View Post
    I do not disagree, there are instances where an rc has merit in a collection. I too would welcome seeing a BSW/36, even a ERMA/35 or BLM/36, - it's a fact most known are rc's or like rifles.

    I also agree that research is advanced by these rifles, at least the most basic elements, serial ranges, BC and acceptance patterns.

    I have nothing against people "collecting" them, enjoying them, or even "saving" them, what I object too is collectors that should know better passing them off as investments or as rifles that have some special allure to them, some "Stalingrad" rifle or Superman rifle at some KL, as though that would merit some special interest (only a psychopath would find enjoyment collecting KL garbage...)

    Anyway, really I have nothing against people that collect rc's, - people can collect piss bottles or used chewing gum for all i care, however on a "collector's forum" I think it is inappropriate to mislead new collectors down this path. They may find it on their own, then whatever, but I do not want to see this forum turn into a platform advancing rc's, rifles that are total mismatches and refinished. Three decades ago refinished or mismatched equated to shooter, together they equate to basically a accumulation of parts or a truck/barn gun.
    What does KL mean

  10. #30
    RKI- Reasonably Knowledgable Individual heavy_mech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Millertime6289 View Post
    What does KL mean
    Konzentrationslager or concentration camp
    "Wen Tausend einen Mann erschlagen, das ist nicht Ruhm, das ist nicht Ehre, denn beinsen wird's in späteren tagen gesiegt hat doch das Deutsch Heer. Podest nicht die Paten der Soldaten doner die da Sterben sollen, soll man geben was sie wollen, sahs sie Herzen, sahs sie Küssen, den sie wissen nicht wann sie sterben müssen"

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