Identification help!

Hi I'm new here and this is my first post hope it's in the correct spot. First off my name is scooter and I love war relics and anything war related. I love old military rifles, the stories they could tell if they could talk is what draws me to them. I've always loved mausers but never really dug deep into he history of them. So forgive me as I'm still learning about them. As for why I'm here, I bought a geweher 98 or a k98 from my local gun store. They labeled it as a k98 but I'm not so sure because of the year. The receiver has 1916 stamped on the reciever. It was said to be all matching numbers. Numbers are 8320. It is missing the cleaning rod so that sucks and the bayonet that it come with doesnt have anything on it as far as a serial number. My main question what is this exaclty? Did the cleaning rod have the serial number? Also was the stock stamped with a serial number? Another main question I have is this stock has a number stamped or etched into it and that number is 8230. So that number doesnt match the rest. When I look at the serial number on the stock it looks a little funny so I'm not sure if its origional or if someone added it later and accidentally flipped the 3 and 2. Any advice would be awsome, thanks.
Also I forgot to add this rifle is rough but does cycle and function. Doesnt look like it has ever been refinished wich I like. Also bear with me while I try and find a way to attach photos. Everytime i do It says they are too big or they wont let me attach them all.

The rest of the photos, wish it would let me attach them to the origional post.

From what I can see, you did fine with this Gewehr 98. Need photos of the bolt and bolt parts.
Don't sweat the reversed numbers on the stock - not an unheard of thing with these rifles.
Should be easy-ish to find a cleaning rod numbered 20.
How's the bore and crown look?

Looks like a nice honest Mauser made Gew98 rifle. Would like to see pictures of the bolt when you get time. And neat S98/05 bayonet as well. It was once a Sawback bayonet but it was later removed due to regulations that was put in place around 1917. The Germans did this to counteract the propaganda campaign, and relating threats to the general welfare of their troops. The British and French threaten the Imperial German government that any German soldier captured with a Sawback bayonet would be killed.

In reality the Sawback bayonet was made not to cause more damage to an enemy soldier but to cut light timber and brush by engineers building fortifications.

ebeeby said:

From what I can see, you did fine with this Gewehr 98. Need photos of the bolt and bolt parts.
Don't sweat the reversed numbers on the stock - not an unheard of thing with these rifles.
Should be easy-ish to find a cleaning rod numbered 20.
How's the bore and crown look?

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As far as the bore goes, it's very dirty. The store labeled it as poor. I'm going to run a cleaning rod though it and see how it comes out. As far as the stock number is this not ththe origional stock or did the person that stamped it screw up? It would be one hell of a coincidence to find a stock to almost match the serial numbers jlbut just have the 2 and 3 flipped.

I would say this stock is the original stock that was on the rifle when in left the factory. The way the serial numbers are off I would say that is a perfect example of a factory error. It did happen and in 1916 no less. That was a very hard year not only on weapons production but also on men and equipment.

The Battle of the Somme and the Battle of Verdun showed that.

And thanks for the bolt pictures as well. What I like about this rifle is that the piece is untouched doesn't look like it has been messed with, which is a good thing. Cleaning wise take it slow and have lots of patience. Remember it is a 103 years young!

Warrior1354 said:

I would say this stock is the original stock that was on the rifle when in left the factory. The way the serial numbers are off I would say that is a perfect example of a factory error. It did happen and in 1916 no less. That was a very hard year not only on weapons production but also on men and equipment.

The Battle of the Somme and the Battle of Verdun showed that.

And thanks for the bolt pictures as well. What I like about this rifle is that the piece is untouched doesn't look like it has been messed with, which is a good thing. Cleaning wise take it slow and have lots of patience. Remember it is a 103 years young!

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Yeah they way it was off made me think it was just a accident. And this makes me feel better, just wish the cleaning rod was with it. Would the rod have the full serial number or just "20"? So this rilfe isnt considered a k98? Also I paid $449 for it how bad of a price do you think this was? I though it was ok since it didnt look like the rifle was ever refinished.

I agree, I like it a lot. While a factory error is not the most 'ideal' thing for everyone, I think it's neat. For some reason Gustloff bolts stick out in my mind for common numbering errors. Features on the stock look good too for block. Nice righteous gun, reminds me of the ff block I used to have. I think the error on a WMO rifle is interesting, something I would expect from Danzig or Erfurt but not WMO. You stole it at the price you paid.

Warrior1354 said:

I would say this stock is the original stock that was on the rifle when in left the factory. The way the serial numbers are off I would say that is a perfect example of a factory error. It did happen and in 1916 no less. That was a very hard year not only on weapons production but also on men and equipment.

The Battle of the Somme and the Battle of Verdun showed that.

And thanks for the bolt pictures as well. What I like about this rifle is that the piece is untouched doesn't look like it has been messed with, which is a good thing. Cleaning wise take it slow and have lots of patience. Remember it is a 103 years young!

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Scooter24 said:

Yeah they way it was off made me think it was just a accident. And this makes me feel better, just wish the cleaning rod was with it. Would the rod have the full serial number or just "20"? So this rilfe isnt considered a k98? Also I paid $449 for it how bad of a price do you think this was? I though it was ok since it didnt look like the rifle was ever refinished.

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Yes the correct Imperial Era cleaning rod for this rifle would be numbered #20 and would be marked with an Imperial stamp as well. And no this rifle is not a K98k. The K98k was a carbine that was adopted by the German military in the 1930s and was their main service rifle of WWII.

The Gew 98 or Gewehr for rifle in German was adopted by the Imperial German military to replace the Gew 88 rifles as their main rifle used by the Infantry. Military tactics at the time was hit the enemy from long range and then charged across the battlefield and finish the enemy off with bayonets. Great idea for the academies and warfare used during the Napoleon era not so much in trench warfare where the Maxim machine gun made that concept of warfare all but useless.

The other German weapon of choice would have been the Kar98a carbine but that was used more by Artillery men, Linemen, equipment personal, and Sturmtruppen

The Sturmtruppen preferred this weapons because of its shorter length made it much handy in the trenches and more mobile to use this weapon. The lessons of WW1 due to the changes of warfare would later influence the adopted of a new service rifle for the German military by 1934.

And $499 is a damn good price. A bolt mismatched Gew98 would start at $800.

Warrior1354 said:

Yes the correct Imperial Era cleaning rod for this rifle would be numbered #20 and would be marked with an Imperial stamp as well. And no this rifle is not a K98k. The K98k was a carbine that was adopted by the German military in the 1930s and was their main service rifle of WWII.

The Gew 98 or Gewehr for rifle in German was adopted by the Imperial German military to replace the Gew 88 rifles as their main rifle used by the Infantry. Military tactics at the time was hit the enemy from long range and then charged across the battlefield and finish the enemy off with bayonets. Great idea for the academies and warfare used during the Napoleon era not so much in trench warfare where the Maxim machine gun made that concept of warfare all but useless.

The other German weapon of choice would have been the Kar98a carbine but that was used more by Artillery men, Linemen, equipment personal, and Sturmtruppen

The Sturmtruppen preferred this weapons because of its shorter length made it much handy in the trenches and more mobile to use this weapon.

And $499 is a damn good price. A bolt mismatched rifle like would start at $800.

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Ok what I thought, thank you guys for quick responses. I have a lot to learn about this rilfe and mausers in general. I also just picked up a beautiful 1891 Argentine mauser made in 1899 all matching except cleaning rod. As far as the bolt take down area on the stock, I thought that was only on the k98?

No the Gew 98 rifles were originally designed to have a disk on the stock for unit markings. By late 1916 that feature was eliminated and a bolt take down disk was added.

Also added to the Kar98a carbines as well.

I entirely agree.. not common for Mauser or DWM, but I also agree this is almost certainly the original stock it left the factory with. I do not base this upon the difficulty of finding a stock with a close match in serial, or because i am a "factory error" enthusiast or am found of its use as an excuse (I think "factory error" is used far too casually and is a crutch), I say it is probably the original stock because this stock fits what this rifle should have. It should be walnut, it should have grips and a take down, the one acceptance seen is right for this range MO/16, - what would clinch it for me though is the wrist acceptance and under the serial along the lower edge of the buttstock (these are the key acceptance stamps to determine stock maker and what a rifle came off of..); the fact the buttplate matches is good (you might see if the suffix exist on the top of the buttplate), and the channel serial would be interesting to see if it carries on the same error.

Anyway, a nice looking rifle and worth keeping, Mauser is still the best maker in this time frame, pretty much equal with DWM (who is every bit as good most years, maybe better, they had the best workers... but this is very late 1916 production and the war was dragging on the quality, especially in a place like Berlin, DWM would have started to show stress by late 1916, - things came unglued early in 1917), so you can see this in the firms production consistency.

Regarding the bolt, under the bolt handle, opposite the serial flat, there should be an acceptance and fireproof. You can tell its the original bolt by the distinctive serial numbering, but it would be good to see the lower flat on the bolt.

mauser1908 said:

I think the error on a WMO rifle is interesting, something I would expect from Danzig or Erfurt but not WMO. You stole it at the price you paid.

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Loewe said:

I entirely agree.. not common for Mauser or DWM, but I also agree this is almost certainly the original stock it left the factory with. I do not base this upon the difficulty of finding a stock with a close match in serial, or because i am a "factory error" enthusiast or am found of its use as an excuse (I think "factory error" is used far too casually and is a crutch), I say it is probably the original stock because this stock fits what this rifle should have. It should be walnut, it should have grips and a take down, the one acceptance seen is right for this range MO/16, - what would clinch it for me though is the wrist acceptance and under the serial along the lower edge of the buttstock (these are the key acceptance stamps to determine stock maker and what a rifle came off of..); the fact the buttplate matches is good (you might see if the suffix exist on the top of the buttplate), and the channel serial would be interesting to see if it carries on the same error.

Anyway, a nice looking rifle and worth keeping, Mauser is still the best maker in this time frame, pretty much equal with DWM (who is every bit as good most years, maybe better, they had the best workers... but this is very late 1916 production and the war was dragging on the quality, especially in a place like Berlin, DWM would have started to show stress by late 1916, - things came unglued early in 1917), so you can see this in the firms production consistency.

Regarding the bolt, under the bolt handle, opposite the serial flat, there should be an acceptance and fireproof. You can tell its the original bolt by the distinctive serial numbering, but it would be good to see the lower flat on the bolt.

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Ok I'll look at the bottom of the bolt handle when I get home. What will the acceptance and fireproof markings tell you? I'm not sure what they tell or say about the gun? I just assumed that if the numbers all matched it was good. Sorry, I'm still learning.

In this narrow case, it will only confirm what is obvious, - that the bolt is original. More broadly this detail (position photographed) tells you whether the bolt has been tampered with, (ultimately it determines the authenticity of the bolt to the maker).

In this case the serialing style is unquestionably Mauser's and certainly correct, it would only add to this certainty seeing it. No need to photograph it if it is a hassle, but if easy to do, it would be interesting to see/confirm.

** firms like Mauser, DWM, Amberg, the consortium, all have a certain consistency to them, something the Prussian arsenals never attained, - this consistency can be used to authenticate a bolt or stock if there is a question regarding the serialing style or markings.

Scooter24 said:

Ok I'll look at the bottom of the bolt handle when I get home. What will the acceptance and fireproof markings tell you? I'm not sure what they tell or say about the gun? I just assumed that if the numbers all matched it was good. Sorry, I'm still learning.

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Loewe said:

In this narrow case, it will only confirm what is obvious, - that the bolt is original. More broadly this detail (position photographed) tells you whether the bolt has been tampered with, (ultimately it determines the authenticity of the bolt to the maker).

In this case the serialing style is unquestionably Mauser's and certainly correct, it would only add to this certainty seeing it. No need to photograph it if it is a hassle, but if easy to do, it would be interesting to see/confirm.

** firms like Mauser, DWM, Amberg, the consortium, all have a certain consistency to them, something the Prussian arsenals never attained, - this consistency can be used to authenticate a bolt or stock if there is a question regarding the serialing style or markings.

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Ok, I took a couple pics. Some of the back side of the bolt, the top of the butt plate and the side of the stock.

Thanks for the effort, I do not think there can be any question this is the right stock for the rifle, the suffix at top of buttplate supports its originality. (combine the stock features, fairly uncommon outside Mauser in this time, the original buttplate, the proper acceptance under the cypher, it would be quite a feat to replicate these features..)

The only thing remaining is whether the error was carried over to the internal stock channel and in this case i think it is a low reward to risk exercise because disassembling a rifle that hasn't been apart in decades can be a tricky affair, especially for a new collector. You didn't show the wrist acceptance, but I am sure it would support the rest.

A very nice rifle with honest wear, not too easy to find this late in 1916 (this rifle is extremely late 1916, probably didn't see service until 1917), for one, many rifles Mauser made in this rifles time frame went to Turkey, - not most as some suggest, but certainly among surviving rifles, most 1917-1918 have signs of Turk service. At one time, still generally true, finding a "German" Mauser/17 was considered a great find if original like this.

Loewe said:

Thanks for the effort, I do not think there can be any question this is the right stock for the rifle, the suffix at top of buttplate supports its originality. (combine the stock features, fairly uncommon outside Mauser in this time, the original buttplate, the proper acceptance under the cypher, it would be quite a feat to replicate these features..)

The only thing remaining is whether the error was carried over to the internal stock channel and in this case i think it is a low reward to risk exercise because disassembling a rifle that hasn't been apart in decades can be a tricky affair, especially for a new collector. You didn't show the wrist acceptance, but I am sure it would support the rest.

A very nice rifle with honest wear, not too easy to find this late in 1916 (this rifle is extremely late 1916, probably didn't see service until 1917), for one, many rifles Mauser made in this rifles time frame went to Turkey, - not most as some suggest, but certainly among surviving rifles, most 1917-1918 have signs of Turk service. At one time, still generally true, finding a "German" Mauser/17 was considered a great find if original like this.

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As far as the "wrist" part, what or where is that exaclty? I've not heard of that term with a gun before. I'll every so carefully see if it will come apart easily. If not ill leave it alone. I'm very curious now.

The wrist is the small of the stock, behind the receiver/trigger guard and the buttstock. There is an acceptance under this portion, near the trigger guard. It is the most stable acceptance stamp on the stock and is what is used to determine authenticity (to maker on the receiver, within ranges the acceptance stamp is consistent)

Most rifles that have not been apart recently can be difficult to disassemble, if you are to be in the hobby you will need to learn how to do it, but if this is the first rifle i would wait awhile.

Loewe said:

The wrist is the small of the stock, behind the receiver/trigger guard and the buttstock. There is an acceptance under this portion, near the trigger guard. It is the most stable acceptance stamp on the stock and is what is used to determine authenticity (to maker on the receiver, within ranges the acceptance stamp is consistent)
Most rifles that have not been apart recently can be difficult to disassemble, if you are to be in the hobby you will need to learn how to do it, but if this is the first rifle i would wait awhile.

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Ok that is what I thought you were referring to. I dont recall seeing any stamp there so I thought maybe you were talking about another part of the gun. I'll take a good hard look again tonight. As far as disassembly, I've taken many rifles apart so it's not my first. I've done a few vintage so I know they can be a pain in the butt. I started removing the screws that hold the reciever in and got all but one. Both of the keeper screws come out easy, the rear screw wasnt a issue but the front one is marred up where someone has tried before. I let some oil soak on it over night and I couldnt get it to pop with my hand tools
I'm going to take the tip of my soldering iron on hold it on the screw to heat it up and hopfully that will let it break free. If not I have another trick up my slave that should deff work. That trick involves a drill press (but its off) haha.

Scooter24 said:

Ok that is what I thought you were referring to. I dont recall seeing any stamp there so I thought maybe you were talking about another part of the gun. I'll take a good hard look again tonight. As far as disassembly, I've taken many rifles apart so it's not my first. I've done a few vintage so I know they can be a pain in the butt. I started removing the screws that hold the reciever in and got all but one. Both of the keeper screws come out easy, the rear screw wasnt a issue but the front one is marred up where someone has tried before. I let some oil soak on it over night and I couldnt get it to pop with my hand tools
I'm going to take the tip of my soldering iron on hold it on the screw to heat it up and hopfully that will let it break free. If not I have another trick up my slave that should deff work. That trick involves a drill press (but its off) haha.

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Ok well I look a little closer and was able to find a few markings.